Live data from Hacker News

Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

bloomberg.com

151–160 of 245 posts

Re: Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

#151
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When there have already been numerous well-documented instances of people making false accusations that absolutely RUIN THE LIVES of the defendants, it can hardly be a surprise that people with a lot to lose would take drastic, if ill-though-out, measures to protect themselves from that possibility. As another comment said, even when the false accusations are found to be false, it's usually too late for the defendant…

Hey, can you show me some of these well documented instances? The Duke Lacross case gets brought up a lot, but all those guys were exonerated and as far as I'm aware doing fine. Kavanaugh just got appointed to the Supreme Court and Lois C.K is popping up to do comedy sets, so I'm curious to see these many well documented cases you refer to.

Ultimately, I don't think the percentage of cases really matter: we have a tendency to have an irrational fear of things that have a very low probability. (Like child abduction etc.)

I don't think this is any different. The chance of being falsely accused is probably very small, but I know I'd absolutely crushed, both mentally and physically (lack of sleep for months in a row) if it happened to me. Even if, a year or two later, they'd clear my name. It's sufficient to have just a few high profile cases to increase that fear.

That doesn't mean that I'd go out of my way to avoid hiring women...

Re: Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

#152
post #39
post #2

Personal opinion - the lack of a "innocent until proven guilty" judicial system when it comes to sexual harassment claims is what has caused much of the fear of women. Colleges, businesses, and online communities almost always simply believe the victim, and even if a trial should occur and the accused is vindicated, the accused has already been fired, expelled, or crucified by public opinion. The records of the accus…

We never really had "innocent until proven guilty" in these circumstances. Legally sure, but courts have little involvement even now. Until recently, the women/victim side was assumed guilty... still are in many places/circumstances. We're leaving judge and jury duty to the public, social media, old media, individuals and (above all) corporate policy. None of these operate on a presumption of innocence.

In every case where it was the victim's word against the accused the court almost always used to side with whoever has more power in society.

White woman accuses black man -> accused is guilty.

rich woman accuses poor man -> accused is guilty

black woman accuses white man ->accused is not guilty

poor woman accuses rich man -> accused is not guilty

It's still that way, sometimes. The difference is now is that "who has more power" suddenly varies a ton based on who's making the decision and the political optics of the situation. So some people on wall street (statistically richer and whiter than average) are scared (rationally or not, you decide) that they're now potentially vulnerable to false accusation when they were previously insulated to some degree by being (mostly) rich and white.

Re: Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't these men just learn Look what you have not said: "Why can't these women just learn ..." Somewhow you only seem to require men to do things? Are you arguing that it's acceptable for women falsely to accuse men? Ask yourself: what have you done to ensure that women not falsely accuse men? Have you had "the talk" with your daughters about false accusations?

The men are in a position of power. Side note: How many women have been accused of sexual harassment?

Not sure about the total number (surely fewer than men), but a legislator at the forefront of the #MeToo movement in CA has been accused of sexual harassment: https://www.latimes.com/politics/essential/la-pol-ca-essenti...

Re: Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So... you think it is fair to the woman in example 1 to have the same term applied to example 2? 1- The first woman's gang rape where she spent months in the hospital recuperating. 2- An upper middle class woman getting told in a loud manner "uuuuhhh girl, you're looking finnnnneeee today" Really? You can't see the difference between 1 and 2? You can't see the need for different terminology? That's on you. I find it…

Sure, #1 is uniquely described as “gang rape” and #2 is “verbal assault”. I don’t think verbal assault and gang rape are equivalent. That’s not what I’m arguing. I am arguing that any form of sexual assault is predatory behaviour engaged in by an abuser and it is completely appropriate for a woman to consider someone who verbally harasses them to be a sexual assault risk. Sexual assault is woefully under reported and…

Err, I was using the term "Violation of a woman's integrity".

According to you, both 1 and 2 can be described that way.

Listen you are right in part. Like when people talk about drugs being ba-a-a-a-d.

Is cocaine bad? Yes

Is the war on drugs justified by this? No

Same here. You are talking about a real problem. You are suggesting solutions that hurt everyone involved and then acting like if someone doesn't agree with you they are denying the problem.

I'm not denying the problem. I pointed out issue with an applied solution and instead of addressing them, you bring up the problem the issues were supposed to address, while ignoring the point.

Re: Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

#155
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is possible in the US. Imagine someone rapes a nun, and she testifies to it. She identifies the defendant, and in his testimony he denies it. If the jury finds her testimony more credible — to the extent that there is not a reasonable doubt as to his guilt — they can convict him. Of course, it helps if there is corroborating evidence, but there is no rule that says one cannot be convicted (in the US) based on a…

Maybe you can point to a case where literally the only evidence was the story of the victim? (I would be really scared to live in such a country, that strikes me a a recipe for disaster)

Sorry, it's been a long time since I was a lawyer, and I didn't do criminal cases!

Re: Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consensus seems to be There is no consensus. Your references [0, 1] both claim some variant of most-rapes-are-not-reported trope (I have not had time to look into [3]): - "only about 40% of rapes are ever reported" [0] - "the number of rapes and sexual assaults which are never reported or prosecuted far outweighs ..." [1] Pretty much by definition of "not reported", it is difficult to believe that one can confidently…

show me better sources and data?

The OP didn't suggest she had better data, the OP said that there is no consensus. in another post the OP said that is no serious, solid research.

Re: Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

#157

So as a father of two daughters in their 20's, this makes me sad. Instead of attempting to see women as equals and moving to bridge the gap -- the best solution Wall Street can come up with is to further isolate themselves? Why can't these men just learn to treat women like the humans they are?

This is textbook gaslighting.

Re: Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

#158
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you were in Kavanaugh’s position, and you didn’t do it, how would you go about clearing your name?

Well to start I wouldn't have gone up and said a bunch of easily verifiable lies where I claiming boofing meant farting and that I threw up a lot during beach week because I have a sensitive stomach. I wouldn't have had a temper tantrum where I complain about how the Clinton's were somehow behind it. I would have encouraged an FBI investigation into things and encouraged them to speak to the only other witness, Mark…

"easily verifiable lies" - comments like this make me happy he's going to be a SCJ for the next 30-40 years

Re: Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, #1 is uniquely described as “gang rape” and #2 is “verbal assault”. I don’t think verbal assault and gang rape are equivalent. That’s not what I’m arguing. I am arguing that any form of sexual assault is predatory behaviour engaged in by an abuser and it is completely appropriate for a woman to consider someone who verbally harasses them to be a sexual assault risk. Sexual assault is woefully under reported and…

Err, I was using the term "Violation of a woman's integrity". According to you, both 1 and 2 can be described that way. Listen you are right in part. Like when people talk about drugs being ba-a-a-a-d. Is cocaine bad? Yes Is the war on drugs justified by this? No Same here. You are talking about a real problem. You are suggesting solutions that hurt everyone involved and then acting like if someone doesn't agree with…

You can’t swing a cat without finding a victim of sexual harassment who felt violated by harassment even if it wasn’t physical. Your physical body isn’t the only part of you that exists, if you are harassed to the point where you don’t feel safe living your life because of the threats posed to you wouldn’t you feel violated? Your life has been compromised.

If you mean “physically violated” then sure, you cannot be physically violated by words, but I don’t see the value in making that distinction. If a woman is afraid to go to work because her colleague shouts obscene remarks at her every time he sees her, why does it matter (in the context of ensuring she feels safe at work) if he hasn’t escalated to committing the acts he threatens yet?

Every situation is different, for some women a physical assault can be far less violating than a daily campaign of verbal harassment.

Re: Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

#160
post #140
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>False accusations of sexual assault, by all indications, are rare, Personally I've seen just about as many false accusations as true ones. It's not always the woman that makes the accusation, some men use it to hurt other men they don't like.

How many false and true accusations have you seen? I'm close to 50, and I've personally never seen either.

>How many false and true accusations have you seen?

I've been accused by some random online that I never met.

A friend of mine rejected a woman on okcupid, she then made accounts both in his name and various women's names on the former site 'cheaterville' and reported that he gave her multiple sexually transmitted diseases including HIV which cost him an acting job becuase it was the first thing that came up when you googled his name and despite he and I both having screenshots of this psychotic individual attacking him via multiple forms of communication threatening him if he wouldn't go out with her they said 'get it removed or we can't have you be part of the production'.

A few years ago at my current employer a woman alleged I sent her all sorts of inappropriate text messages and provided screenshots. One problem, she used an iOS device and all of the messages allegedly from me, were in the color bubble of the recipient not the sender meaning she messaged herself then deleted the wrong color bubbles.

So there's 3, 2 of them involving me, all in the past decade.

Then Saturday on a friend's IG post about a candle sale at Bath & Body works I commented "Such a girl" a local newspaper reporter than replied to my comment:

"Oh ZANG, you sure diminished her! Girls are stupid, with their genders and stuff, lol, amiright?!"

To which I replied:

"..."

To which she replied:

"Yes? I'm here."

To which I replied:

"there's something wrong with you. I made a simple comment a friend that I've known for 8 years post being playful. Not because I'm some woman shaming toxic card carrying member of hte patriarchy. Maybe try enjoying your life instead of lashing out at complete strangers on the internet there slugger"

To which she replied: " Ah. Here, let me translate that for you: "I don't like being checked, so I'm going to gaslight and throw some phrases around to seem "woke" and then continue to diminish through patronizing name-calling".

At which point I then contacted her immediate supervisor at her publication, his supervisor, the editor in chief as well as an employee of the parent company that owns the newspaper as this woman's IG profile starts "Downtown reporter at @newspapersheworksatsinstagram" as what she did is entirely uncalled for and not at all professional and if she's done this once, she's done it many times.

So I have a local newspaper reporter putting words into my mouth, calling my character into question in a public forum, because I happen to have a penis and said 'such a girl' to a candle sale photograph on a post of someone that I've not only known for 8 years but have taken out several times over those years...

Post reply on HN