Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost • Hacker News Board

Re: Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

#91

Post by CiPHPerCoder » Mon, Dec 03, 2018, 5:41 PM UTC

throwaway5250 wrote: post #85

CiPHPerCoder wrote: post #31

This is cowardice. Rational cowardice, perhaps, but still cowardice nonetheless. > “Some men have voiced concerns to me that a false accusation is what they fear,” said Zweig, the lawyer. “These men fear what they cannot control.” This reveals so much about the mentality of the people being interviewed. The statistics of false rape accusations do not justify this concern. I would expect that an industry that copes wi…

Avoiding unnecessary risk is not cowardice. In fact, most of us are paid, in part, for doing just that.

Drastically changing one's professional habits to cope with a rare risk is a poor use of one's time.

Re: Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

#92

Post by interesthrow2 » Mon, Dec 03, 2018, 5:41 PM UTC

danesparza wrote: post #5

So as a father of two daughters in their 20's, this makes me sad. Instead of attempting to see women as equals and moving to bridge the gap -- the best solution Wall Street can come up with is to further isolate themselves? Why can't these men just learn to treat women like the humans they are?

Well you can explain your daughters that men don't act the same with men and women, just like women don't act the same when with women or men.

Men are now protecting themselves against possible accusations of wrong doing by women, in professional settings, conferences, school... because now anybody can accuse them of abuse on Twitter with a simple hashtag and the world will never believe they are innocent even they have been deemed innocent by a court of law.

I personally refuse to be with alone with a female coworker in any situation, even elevators. And any private meeting is done with the door open.

Re: Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

#93

Post by guitarbill » Mon, Dec 03, 2018, 5:41 PM UTC

kajecounterhack wrote: post #59

falcolas wrote: post #2

Personal opinion - the lack of a "innocent until proven guilty" judicial system when it comes to sexual harassment claims is what has caused much of the fear of women. Colleges, businesses, and online communities almost always simply believe the victim, and even if a trial should occur and the accused is vindicated, the accused has already been fired, expelled, or crucified by public opinion. The records of the accus…

> Colleges, businesses, and online communities almost always simply believe the victim, and even if a trial should occur and the accused is vindicated, the accused has already been fired, expelled, or crucified by public opinion If you flip this statement, you find yourself in a similarly bad situation: if you always assume the perpetrator is innocent, the victim is now in a world of hurt until / if they can get a co…

> The result is that women live in a state of _perpetual fear of men_. And that's current state.

Hyperbole does not help at all, and this statement is several levels beyond hyperbole. A bit of nuance, please.

Re: Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

#94

Post by swiley » Mon, Dec 03, 2018, 5:41 PM UTC

temp-dude-87844 wrote: post #51

This sort of fear-based hypercorrection, a misguided but not necessarily ineffective form of risk avoidance, happens in many walks of life. The same calculus is at the root of non-lower-class whites (as well as nearly everyone of high status) in the US avoiding neighborhoods with blacks and latinos. To them, the visible race serves as a proxy to all sorts of unpleasantness they wish to avoid, purely on correlation, a…

>False accusations of sexual assault, by all indications, are rare,

Personally I've seen just about as many false accusations as true ones. It's not always the woman that makes the accusation, some men use it to hurt other men they don't like.

Re: Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

#95

Post by cuddlecake » Mon, Dec 03, 2018, 5:41 PM UTC

danesparza wrote: post #5

So as a father of two daughters in their 20's, this makes me sad. Instead of attempting to see women as equals and moving to bridge the gap -- the best solution Wall Street can come up with is to further isolate themselves? Why can't these men just learn to treat women like the humans they are?

As ridiculous as it may sound, most of (these) men treat women like the humans they are.

Most of women also treat men like the humans they are.

The problem lies in the fact that bad women treat all men badly and bad men treat all women badly.[citation needed]

Hence, fear results in good men and women having to avoid eachother, for lack of a better response.

Re: Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

#96

Post by madengr » Mon, Dec 03, 2018, 5:41 PM UTC

ams6110 wrote: post #22

madengr wrote: post #8

Nothing new. A professor I had 25 years ago would always keep the door open if he had a female student during office hours.

I think then it was out of courtesy or perhaps propriety. Now it's out of fear.

Nope, he told me it was to avert the risk of accusation.

Re: Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

#97

Post by cfqycwz » Mon, Dec 03, 2018, 5:41 PM UTC

jbob2000 wrote: post #74

> Finally, he landed on the solution: “Just try not to be an asshole.” That’s pretty much the bottom line, said Ron Biscardi, chief executive officer of Context Capital Partners. “It’s really not that hard.” Tell that to Neil Degrass Tyson! Would you ever consider him an asshole? And yet, here he is getting lambasted for pointing out a tattoo on a woman's arm and telling people he doesn't do hugs. You literally can b…

I don't think that's a very honest description of the allegations against NDT!

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/nosacredcows/2018/11/two-more-...

Re: Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

#98

Post by sk4rekr0w » Mon, Dec 03, 2018, 5:43 PM UTC

CiPHPerCoder wrote: post #82

sk4rekr0w wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't take an average and apply it to a specific situation. In this context, if you believe that men are in dramatic positions of power, then you would have to find the # that shows how often powerful men are wrongly accused (vs. just the average man).

> You can't take an average and apply it to a specific situation. In the absence of a more focused study, it's the best we have. Do you have an alternative study to link to?

I'm not aware of a study - but that doesn't mean you default to bad math.

Re: Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

#99

Post by neaden » Mon, Dec 03, 2018, 5:43 PM UTC

happytoexplain wrote: post #73

neaden wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every organization I've volunteered with that works with minors, including BSA, has that rule. It's sadly necessary.

It's telling that I'm unsure if this line of comments is more concerned with the problem that people abuse other people, or the problem that people falsely accuse other people of abuse.

Sorry, from my perspective it's important to have that rule to prevent abuse. My understanding is that BSA implemented it after several instances of sexual abuse by volunteers, not due to fear of false accusations.

Re: Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

#100

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Dec 03, 2018, 5:43 PM UTC

danesparza wrote: post #37

tomp wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just common sense for people to protect their future/careers. And it's not just men that think that way - from the article: > A late-40-something in private equity said he has a new rule, established on the advice of his wife, an attorney: no business dinner with a woman 35 or younger.

Yeah. That's good advice ... because (#metoo movement aside) WHO HAS "BUSINESS" DINNERS ALONE WITH MARRIED PEOPLE? This is something completely different than having dinner with a group of people.

[deleted]