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Many People Taking Antidepressants Discover They Cannot Quit

nytimes.com

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Re: Many People Taking Antidepressants Discover They Cannot Quit

#151

Post by azernik »

vanderZwan wrote: post #145
azernik wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is psychiatry . We don't know how to cure the underlying diseases, because we don't entirely understand them. When the field can actually cure them, like for PTSD and certain anxiety disorders, it's very happy to.

I think we're on the verge of some really big breakthroughs when it comes to understanding the brain though. The research group I work for (for only six more days.. sigh..) just released a pre-print of a paper mapping out all of the mouse brain's cell types[0][1]. > The mammalian nervous system executes complex behaviors controlled by specialised, precisely positioned and interacting cell types. Here, we used RNA seq…

Yup! I would just like people to stop blaming the medical profession for us not being quite there yet when it comes to clinical applications.

Re: Many People Taking Antidepressants Discover They Cannot Quit

#152

Post by azernik »

aviv wrote: post #16
azernik wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is psychiatry . We don't know how to cure the underlying diseases, because we don't entirely understand them. When the field can actually cure them, like for PTSD and certain anxiety disorders, it's very happy to.

It doesn't cure any of these disorders. All they can do is reduce the symptoms just enough between each pill you pop.

... which is exactly what I was saying? When you don't know how to cure something, you treat the symptoms.

Re: Many People Taking Antidepressants Discover They Cannot Quit

#153

Post by empath75 »

phkahler wrote: post #144
fogzen wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And multiple studies show them no more effective than exercise: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3674785/ The bigger problem is “depression” is not reproducibly measurable, because it has no falsifiable or biomedical marker.

>> The bigger problem is “depression” is not reproducibly measurable, because it has no falsifiable or biomedical marker. That's something I like to point out using SSRIs as an example. The claim is that they increase levels of serotonin and that the cause of the depression is reduced serotonin. The thing is, nobody actually checks your serotonin levels and says "oh that's low take this." Then there's the problem of…

If mdma makes you friendlier, does that mean that people who are shy are suffering from friendliness deficit disorder and can I get a prescription for it.

Re: Many People Taking Antidepressants Discover They Cannot Quit

#154

Post by azernik »

Karrot_Kream wrote: post #31

To offer the converse, I had a very traumatic event in my life and was put on an SSRI, which helped me function. After almost 2 years of taking it, I didn't think I needed it anymore and I tapered myself off very slowly but regularly, keeping logs and setting alarms. While in the beginning I felt some vertigo and other symptoms, I tapered very gradually, and was completely free at the end of my taper. My symptoms nev…

Psychiatric meds in general, and SSRIs in particular, are super idiosyncratic.

Re: Many People Taking Antidepressants Discover They Cannot Quit

#155

Post by azernik »

mirimir wrote: post #23

That brings back horrible memories. I took an SSRI for several years, initially prescribed by a GP. But the problem was that I wasn't "depressed". I am bipolar, and sometimes got stuck in down mode. The SSRI did make me more functional. But what it mostly did was make me affectless. That is, I could be sad or happy or angry or whatever, and I felt pretty much nothing. However, I still did whatever someone who was sad…

Interesting - I have bipolar too (that is, bipolar II), also misdiagnosed as pure depression for a while. However, the SSRI didn't flatten my affect, but instead amplified my hypomania to where it was severe enough to be diagnosed. Now I'm on lamotrigine and sertraline, and the two together keep me stable and up.

Re: Many People Taking Antidepressants Discover They Cannot Quit

#156

Post by azernik »

DanBC wrote: post #136
jdietrich wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Because depression isn't a lifelong thing, it should be at worst episodic. Says who? The DSM-5 specifically lists Persistent Depressive Disorder, formerly known as dysthymia, which is defined by chronic depressive symptoms for a period of two years or more. Many people suffer from frequent episodes of major depression; there's fairly good evidence that antidepressants can reduce the risk and severity of relapses. Pa…

Sure, for the people who find it useful it's fine. But that's not most people. Most people with depression have a mild to moderate form that responds well to medication for two years and a talking therapy. These people don't need ot be on meds for life.

And usually aren't.

Re: Many People Taking Antidepressants Discover They Cannot Quit

#157

Post by aaron_altamura »

nugget wrote: post #127
make3 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no doubt that antidepressant therapy needs to be combined with psychotherapy, sports, meditation and just reducing the unhealthy parts of your life. The cost of taking antidepressants is really low however. Most of the time, they have almost no side effects, and are proven to help https://www.bmj.com/content/360/bmj.k847 Where I live, they are pretty cheap. I find that there is undue bias against antidepress…

I've seen cases where antidepressants saved people's lives. I've also seen cases where they were pushed on people who needed psychotherapy and not medication. Access to quality psychotherapy is unfortunately very low.

Venlaflaxine not only saved my life, but gave me a new one. It shouldn't be looked to as the only solution, however, it's one of the most powerful ones in the arsenal. This bias against anti-depressants is quite miseducated and unfortunate.

Re: Many People Taking Antidepressants Discover They Cannot Quit

#158

Post by wbl »

joe_the_user wrote: post #73
superkuh wrote: post #66

>Yet withdrawal has never been a focus of drug makers or government regulators, who felt antidepressants could not be addictive and did far more good than harm. They're not addictive. They cause dependence. There is an important difference. Addictive things increase incentive salience of stimuli associated with the drug. They increase wanting. And that increased wanting leads to increased usage. Dependence on a drug…

While your differentiation between addiction and dependency is certainly correct as the medical profession defines these thing, simple dependency would sound like addiction to a lot of average people. Further, it should be obvious that dependency is a problem. If the medical profession thinks it's solved that problem by redefining words, I'd say state regulation is pretty appropriate step.

Have you kicked your oxygen dependence yet?

Re: Many People Taking Antidepressants Discover They Cannot Quit

#159

Post by wolco »

Fnoord wrote: post #49
thearn4 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had the same issues coming off of Lexapro. Weird brain shocks. Bupropion (Wellbutrin) has been better for me all around, but I worry about what it will be like coming down off of it too. The good news is that I'm overall in a good place and feel like I probably don't need it anymore.

Bupropion is marketed as Zyban as a smoking cessation aid meaning that people are coming down on it when they quit Zyban, after they quit smoking. I've done this, twice. I've also used Ritalin in the past. It works similar, and from my memory the coming down is also similar.

I tried Zyban years ago. After 7 days I stopped smoking and then had this weird time slowing down effect. I guess most people don't have that effect but I wonder how many do.

Re: Many People Taking Antidepressants Discover They Cannot Quit

#160

Post by brookside »

Fnoord wrote: post #128
fogzen wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You keep saying "professional" as if that means anything here. The professionals that without any evidence promoted the low-serotonin theory of depression. Who, after over a decade of prescribing SSRI's finally admitted that low serotonin doesn't cause depression. Yeah, those professionals. They don't know what causes depression yet they're happy to keep prescribing drugs. But it's the "self-medicating new age hippie…

It means a lot, it means that the person who's responsible for your therapy (which might involve drugs) has studied for years (it takes a while until one's a psychiatrist!). It means they understand the fundamentals required for their title. Such credentials are worth a lot in our societies, hence the high wage. Perhaps not in the alternative medicine field where you're flocking around but realise you are the excepti…

> Such credentials are worth a lot in our societies, hence the high wage.

Lots of professionals with great titles and affiliations steer people down a totally incorrect path.

An easy example of this is Harvard study published in the New England Journal of Medicine promoting dietary fat reduction, shaping what every credentialed person would advise for diet for the next 50 years: https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/09/13/493739074...

Drug companies shoulder the rep of being cold evil capitalists. Psychiatrists also become extremely wealthy as part of this medical complex, and get to keep a positive reputation. It reminds me of ticketmaster essentially being paid to shoulder negative PR for excessive ticket fees which are often largely passed on to performers.

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