Many People Taking Antidepressants Discover They Cannot Quit • Hacker News Board

Re: Many People Taking Antidepressants Discover They Cannot Quit

#21

Post by kzrdude » Sat, Apr 07, 2018, 8:46 PM UTC

aviv wrote: post #13

epistasis wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying that people are not trying to cure diseases? And instead they are only trying to manage them? If so, that is unequivocally wrong and misinformed.

They are trying to cure symptoms of underlying diseases, and even that, only in ways that will require lifetime intake of drugs and followup tests.

That's just human nature. We can say the same about programmers. They just want to fix the apparent problems, not write a better program.

Yes, if you read Hacker News you probably object. Not everyone does that. But making the problem just go away is the prevailing, widely spread, most commonly used mode of working.

Re: Many People Taking Antidepressants Discover They Cannot Quit

#22

Post by jeremyjh » Sat, Apr 07, 2018, 8:46 PM UTC

tempagain567i wrote: post #2

The use of these anti-depressants is extremely irresponsible. Most people who use them dont even have an inherant chemical problem. This will all be looked back upon as very stupid indeed.

So it turns out that your mind is implemented in your brain, which uses chemicals. There is no such thing as distinguishing "chemical" mental problems and "non-chemical" mental problems.

Re: Many People Taking Antidepressants Discover They Cannot Quit

#23

Post by mirimir » Sat, Apr 07, 2018, 8:46 PM UTC

That brings back horrible memories. I took an SSRI for several years, initially prescribed by a GP. But the problem was that I wasn't "depressed". I am bipolar, and sometimes got stuck in down mode.

The SSRI did make me more functional. But what it mostly did was make me affectless. That is, I could be sad or happy or angry or whatever, and I felt pretty much nothing. However, I still did whatever someone who was sad or happy or angry or whatever would do. You could say that it made me sociopathic. But fortunately, not homicidal or suicidal. Or at least, not in a big way. Also, I lost interest in sex, and it took forever to reach orgasm.

And yes, quitting was painful. Mostly I recall restless leg syndrome. I would kick my partner while asleep. And I got even crazier for a while, as I tapered off.

So now I'm taking modafinil and lamotrigine. Which works very well for me. I'm a little manic most of the time, but I like that. And I'm not at all sociopathic.

Re: Many People Taking Antidepressants Discover They Cannot Quit

#24

Post by bm1362 » Sat, Apr 07, 2018, 8:48 PM UTC

tempagain567i wrote: post #2

The use of these anti-depressants is extremely irresponsible. Most people who use them dont even have an inherant chemical problem. This will all be looked back upon as very stupid indeed.

If you're interested in working for a startup working on improving the physical health -> behavioral health system integrations, checkout https://www.quartethealth.com/ in NYC.

Re: Many People Taking Antidepressants Discover They Cannot Quit

#25

Post by nashashmi » Sat, Apr 07, 2018, 8:49 PM UTC

azernik wrote: post #11

aviv wrote: post #6

This shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. Modern medicine is not in the business of curing diseases. It's all about disease and symptom management.

This is psychiatry . We don't know how to cure the underlying diseases, because we don't entirely understand them. When the field can actually cure them, like for PTSD and certain anxiety disorders, it's very happy to.

What diseases are there on the field of psychiatry that can be "cured"? It seems to me that all of those diseases are only mitigated enough to help the person recover on their own.

Re: Many People Taking Antidepressants Discover They Cannot Quit

#26

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Apr 07, 2018, 8:49 PM UTC

maym86 wrote: post #18

vanderZwan wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Modern medicine is not in the business of curing diseases. I know enough people in the field of modern medicine to know that that is hyperbole. At least in the European countries that I have lived in. EDIT: I am sorry to hear from the responses to this that this may not be quite so hyperbolic in the US. I hope that trend will be reversed somehow.

Having lived in US and UK there is a big difference. I have experienced US doctors tring to upsell me on treatments for a superficial leg injury that UK doctors who have seen the same thing have not and said just leave it unless it causes pain. Similar experience with dental care in US.

[deleted]

Re: Many People Taking Antidepressants Discover They Cannot Quit

#27

Post by themgt » Sat, Apr 07, 2018, 8:49 PM UTC

vanderZwan wrote: post #9

aviv wrote: post #6

This shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. Modern medicine is not in the business of curing diseases. It's all about disease and symptom management.

> Modern medicine is not in the business of curing diseases. I know enough people in the field of modern medicine to know that that is hyperbole. At least in the European countries that I have lived in. EDIT: I am sorry to hear from the responses to this that this may not be quite so hyperbolic in the US. I hope that trend will be reversed somehow.

Before you downvote op for an admittedly over-broad opinion you truly need to experience the USA model of overprescription, drug ads on billboards and all over TV shows targeted by demographic, all sorts of IP shenanigans to extend IP/re-patent/pointlessly reformulate/roadblock generics/cherry-pick studies for new drugs that have no real benefit but a higher price.

European medicine is indeed worlds different, and the European population is far less sick, overmedicated and suffering from iatrogenesis.

Re: Many People Taking Antidepressants Discover They Cannot Quit

#28

Post by vanderZwan » Sat, Apr 07, 2018, 8:52 PM UTC

finaliteration wrote: post #12

vanderZwan wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the "irresponsibility" was aimed at the medical field, not at the patients. At least that was how I decided to read it. EDIT: Also, I think that even for the patients where the cause of the depression is not "chemical" in origin, that does not reduce the severity of the illness in the slightest. It just means that the causes may lie elsewhere (for example externally). I have been depressed as an indirect resu…

Ah, that does make sense. I just tend to be a little on the defensive about it because often the response I get is that I’m taking the “easy” way out through medication.

> I just tend to be a little on the defensive about it

Completely understandable! Most people seem to have such a frustrating inability to understand that other people can have very different experiences of the world to their own, and that those experiences aren't wrong.

I am lucky enough that most of my friends do understand mental illnesses a bit better than the average person out there. Some of them who confided their mental health problems with me about the kind of reaction they tend to get, and it's just amazing how ignorant the natural state of the human mind is.

> that I’m taking the “easy” way out through medication.

Call me crazy, but I partially blame the dualist world view of the Western world for that, even if most people aren't even aware that they have been raised with a dualist mindset. This whole mind/matter division makes people think that mental problems have to be solved by thinking.

Re: Many People Taking Antidepressants Discover They Cannot Quit

#29

Post by pcwalton » Sat, Apr 07, 2018, 8:52 PM UTC

benevol wrote: post #20

I hope that this doesn't come over as sarcastic, but the pharmaceutical industry is a business , and they will always operate like one: A business is about making the most money possible: Maximizing revenue is about minimizing the main costs which are generated by the activities of: (a) acquiring the customer (through: advertising and marketing) and, (b) retaining the customer (in this case: through dependency). Ther…

You are suggesting that depressed people may want to take LSD in lieu of SSRIs, which is horrendous advice that can, for example, trigger panic attacks in those with comorbid anxiety. Please don't.

Re: Many People Taking Antidepressants Discover They Cannot Quit

#30

Post by aaronharder » Sat, Apr 07, 2018, 8:52 PM UTC

kzrdude wrote: post #21

aviv wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are trying to cure symptoms of underlying diseases, and even that, only in ways that will require lifetime intake of drugs and followup tests.

That's just human nature. We can say the same about programmers. They just want to fix the apparent problems, not write a better program. Yes, if you read Hacker News you probably object. Not everyone does that. But making the problem just go away is the prevailing, widely spread, most commonly used mode of working.

I would assume the best intentions for the vast majority of individuals working in the health system. But the economy of that system is one that favors treatment over cure/prevention. I'd like to believe that is a mistake of circumstance and not a design of human greed.