What Airbnb Did to New York City • Hacker News Board

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#151

Post by ac29 » Thu, Mar 08, 2018, 5:22 PM UTC

matte_black wrote: post #26

teh_klev wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> expensive rent in a rural area is different than expensive rent in an urban one I fail to see the difference, maybe you could expand? > In a rural area, if it really comes down to it, people buy Folks are seeking affordable rents because affordable (and habitable) property to buy is pretty much non-existent. > or rent a plot of land and throw a prefab home or trailer on it. Perhaps in your country, good luck with g…

Bah, UK is so small it’s easy to see how it can be a problem. America has so much land available out there, some of it is incredibly cheap the farther you are from civilization, even almost free. I think I could buy several rolling acres of land for a couple thousand bucks right now.

A couple thousand dollars isnt going to get you anything but a couple acres of desert wasteland in the US. You might get a nicer piece of land for $20,000 but the sort of places where land is that cheap are often very rural. 45 minute drives to the nearest medical care or supermarket, and if you're lucky, maybe electric utility hookups (water, sewer, internet? good luck).

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#152

Post by JoeAltmaier » Thu, Mar 08, 2018, 5:23 PM UTC

westbywest wrote: post #147

kerkeslager wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I get not throwing grandma out of the $250/month 4BR she’s been living in for 50 years, but it means something like 200,000 rent-controlled/rent-stabilized units are also raising everyone else’s rent by decreasing inventory. So you're saying that affordable housing is preventing housing from being affordable? LOL. > The endless red tape in new construction makes non-luxury bulidings unprofitable. Want cheaper rents…

> This is just a ridiculous HN meme at this point: every problem is caused by regulation and the only tool we're allowed to use to solve problems is incentives. A data point amplifying this assertion is the situation in St. Louis, where tax incentives are handed out like candy to almost exclusively luxury developments. The city has seen several credit downgrades since 2015, with weak revenue raising ability cited in…

In our local town, the old warehouse district development was 'incentivised' with rent subsidies for new construction. So luxury construction was done, and the rents are exactly the same as everywhere else. The landlords sucked it up for themselves. Strangely, they stand mostly empty.

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#153

Post by dragonwriter » Thu, Mar 08, 2018, 5:31 PM UTC

graeme wrote: post #145

ordinaryperson wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've lived here in NYC for decades. Most of the new buildings that go up are luxury condos, out of reach for mere mortals like myself. I actually purchased a condo in a new building in one of the neighborhoods this article mentioned about a decade ago but I was never able to move in, even after signing the contract, because the city wouldn't grant a certificate of housing occupancy to the builder (long story). But ye…

Luxury condos reduce demand on other buildings, helping keep rents down. Without them you'd have more rich people bidding on regular stuff. That said, if the new buildings are less dense than what they replace, it would raise rents.

> Luxury condos reduce demand on other buildings, helping keep rents down. Without them you'd have more rich people bidding on regular stuff.

Luxury condos attract rich people that otherwise might not be in the local market, both directly (to live in the condos) and indirectly (by stimulating a local increase in services catering to a rich clientele, making the area, not just the condos themselves, more attractive to the rich.) This can make the net effect an increase in demand for other existing housing from the rich, rather than relief of such demand.

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#154

Post by teh_klev » Thu, Mar 08, 2018, 5:32 PM UTC

lmm wrote: post #117

teh_klev wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again. AirBNB is a blight on rural areas (I can speak to this because I reside in rural Scotland) where affordable rental properties are simply disappearing from the market. These properties are barely fully booked during the summer months or holiday/peak seasons, and are empty for weeks at a time in the winter and off-seasons. This is such a waste and hugely frustrating for fol…

If the price has gone up so much, there's a financial incentive to build more until supply matches demand and prices drop to previous levels. > These properties are barely fully booked during the summer months or holiday/peak seasons, and are empty for weeks at a time in the winter and off-seasons. > This is such a waste and hugely frustrating for folks who live and work in these communities trying to find accomodati…

> Is it really so implausible that for a house in a scenic rural area, a succession of people renting it for a week or two each over the summer might end up getting more out of it (between them) than someone wanting to live and work in it for a whole year?

Are you really suggesting that just because you live and work in your local (scenic) rural community you couldn't possibly enjoy the surroundings just as much, if not more, than as a few fleeting transient warm bodies with suitcases could? As residents, we're quite proud of our village and surrounding rural lot and deeply care about and appreciate what we have.

Also, and ultimately, it's the local permanent residents that sustain, year round, the two pub/restaurants, the village shop and the assortment of plumber, electrician, carpenters (all of which also provide substantial local employment), not infrequent visitors occupying holiday homes that lie empty for 50% or more of the year.

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#155

Post by piffey » Thu, Mar 08, 2018, 5:32 PM UTC

personlurking wrote: post #7

If anyone is interested, I recommend the nearly 18-hr PBS documentary on New York City [1], especially the latter parts (6 & 7) which focus on the building boom and the obsessions of Robert Moses [2]. Part 7 in particular (57 min) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaLSRTNT5fw https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York:_A_Documentary_Film https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Moses

"The Power Broker" is also a great read if you want to know more about Robert Moses.

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#156

Post by ordinaryperson » Thu, Mar 08, 2018, 5:34 PM UTC

lazerpants wrote: post #115

ordinaryperson wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From Crown Heights and Bed Stuy (two of the neighborhoods singled out in the article) it's about a 45-60 minute commute into Manhattan via the subway -- not exactly "living centrally." Are people supposed to live 2 hours out? > instead channel the revenue away from the rent-seekers and into the hands of the public (i.e. by increasing property taxes) Good luck getting that passed. And while I'm in favor of higher taxe…

They aren't that far out (especially when the subway ran in a more timely fashion). My commute from Nostrand to lower Manhattan was under 30 minutes even including the 10 minute walk to the subway. That's exactly why that area is gentrifying.

Depends on where you are in Manhattan.

I used to commute from Nostrand to the UES and it involved taking the G train to the E train to the 6 train plus lots of walking. Easily over an hour.

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#157

Post by thriftwy » Thu, Mar 08, 2018, 5:35 PM UTC

jadedhacker wrote: post #100

thriftwy wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you expect that apartments in NYC will be available for mere mortals? There's 7 bln people on the planet and let's say 1% of them would move in if prices were affordable. It's an alpha plus plus city, only two of these, both biting expensive.

NYC is our city. It's for everyone. If the wealth is too concentrated there, split it up. You'd want to turn my hometown into some kind of apartheid disneyland for the rich.

nobody on Earth knows how to "split it up".

You can get preferred treatment for preexisting apartments, but how would you manage that for newly built ones? USSR tried to, they failed and made lifes miserable. China tries and it's not helping.

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#158

Post by FrozenTuna » Thu, Mar 08, 2018, 5:39 PM UTC

lmm wrote: post #117

teh_klev wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again. AirBNB is a blight on rural areas (I can speak to this because I reside in rural Scotland) where affordable rental properties are simply disappearing from the market. These properties are barely fully booked during the summer months or holiday/peak seasons, and are empty for weeks at a time in the winter and off-seasons. This is such a waste and hugely frustrating for fol…

If the price has gone up so much, there's a financial incentive to build more until supply matches demand and prices drop to previous levels. > These properties are barely fully booked during the summer months or holiday/peak seasons, and are empty for weeks at a time in the winter and off-seasons. > This is such a waste and hugely frustrating for folks who live and work in these communities trying to find accomodati…

The fact that there will always be winners and losers doesn't excuse the ethics or issues of winners winning more and losers losing more.

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#159

Post by bradleyjg » Thu, Mar 08, 2018, 5:40 PM UTC

somberi wrote: post #132

As an apartment owner in Manhattan, I find one part of the study surprising. Most Co-ops and Condos (two types of apartment financial structuring that is common in NYC), explicitly ban AirBnB rental. The apartment I own, in a fancy part of the city (Upper East Side), penalises the owner $350 for first infraction, and the fines escalate for each subsequent infraction. Most Co-ops even prohibit non-owners living in the…

Why would you think people willing to violate state law would have any scruples about violating a propriety lease or condo agreement?

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#160

Post by theseatoms » Thu, Mar 08, 2018, 5:40 PM UTC

jadedhacker wrote: post #100

thriftwy wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you expect that apartments in NYC will be available for mere mortals? There's 7 bln people on the planet and let's say 1% of them would move in if prices were affordable. It's an alpha plus plus city, only two of these, both biting expensive.

NYC is our city. It's for everyone. If the wealth is too concentrated there, split it up. You'd want to turn my hometown into some kind of apartheid disneyland for the rich.

Best to hedge your bets by trying to own some real estate.

Are there NYC-specific REITs for doing this in "Hometown REITs" could help renters avoid being priced out, around the margins, at least.