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What Airbnb Did to New York City

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Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#141

Post by dang »

busterarm wrote: post #77
wilde wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s nice that you’re benefiting, but rent control is relatively well studied and it doesn’t achieve its aims. https://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2015/08/e...

Really? Because rent control certainly myself and everyone I knew in a similar situation with a chance at class mobility. Rent control allowed my mom to stop being a cab driver and go to nursing school. Rent control facilitated me getting a really great education and career. I grew up needing food stamps, handmedown clothes and even shoes. How can you, with a straight face, tell me that bullshit?

> How can you, with a straight face, tell me that bullshit?

That breaks the site guidelines and you can't do it here, regardless of how wrong someone is. Please read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#142

Post by dang »

jadedhacker wrote: post #100
thriftwy wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you expect that apartments in NYC will be available for mere mortals? There's 7 bln people on the planet and let's say 1% of them would move in if prices were affordable. It's an alpha plus plus city, only two of these, both biting expensive.

NYC is our city. It's for everyone. If the wealth is too concentrated there, split it up. You'd want to turn my hometown into some kind of apartheid disneyland for the rich.

That last sentence breaks the site guidelines by crossing into personal attack. Please don't do that.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#143

Post by guelo »

lmm wrote: post #117
teh_klev wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again. AirBNB is a blight on rural areas (I can speak to this because I reside in rural Scotland) where affordable rental properties are simply disappearing from the market. These properties are barely fully booked during the summer months or holiday/peak seasons, and are empty for weeks at a time in the winter and off-seasons. This is such a waste and hugely frustrating for fol…

If the price has gone up so much, there's a financial incentive to build more until supply matches demand and prices drop to previous levels. > These properties are barely fully booked during the summer months or holiday/peak seasons, and are empty for weeks at a time in the winter and off-seasons. > This is such a waste and hugely frustrating for folks who live and work in these communities trying to find accomodati…

The end state of your efficient market fetish is that the lower classes will only be able to live in the least desirable areas, everywhere else will be reserved for the use of the richer classes.

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#144

Post by dang »

shados wrote: post #45
dantheman wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

40% of buildings in manhattan couldn't be built today. Seems like the standards could be lowered. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/05/19/upshot/forty-...

This is always such a stupid argument. Zoning and regulations are not about what is there, its about what you WANT to be there. If you had supply issue in an area full of flats, and you said "all buildings from now on have to be at least 2 stories high", 100% of buildings could not be built today. But you're trying to make things better. (I realize that's not the point of the article you linked, and that it's usually…

Would you mind reading https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and editing the name-calling bits out of what you post here?

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#145

Post by graeme »

ordinaryperson wrote: post #87
bogomipz wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"... or the difficulty of building new housing stock in the city." What difficulty? I'm guessing you haven't visited NYC in quite some tie. New York City has experienced an almost continuous building boom for the last 20 years. See the NYC Construction Dashboard: http://www1.nyc.gov/assets/buildings/html/dob-development-re... Note the the graph for "NYC Employment: Construction of Buildings (2000 - 2016)" >"The endl…

I've lived here in NYC for decades. Most of the new buildings that go up are luxury condos, out of reach for mere mortals like myself. I actually purchased a condo in a new building in one of the neighborhoods this article mentioned about a decade ago but I was never able to move in, even after signing the contract, because the city wouldn't grant a certificate of housing occupancy to the builder (long story). But ye…

Luxury condos reduce demand on other buildings, helping keep rents down. Without them you'd have more rich people bidding on regular stuff.

That said, if the new buildings are less dense than what they replace, it would raise rents.

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#146

Post by oh_sigh »

ordinaryperson wrote: post #71
pc86 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I get not throwing grandma out of the $250/month 4BR she’s been living in for 50 years Sorry, but not when the 2BR across the hall is renting for $4,000/mo and is on the market for 4 hours before someone gets it. Grandma doesn't have a right to live in the exact same apartment for the rest of her life at the expense of everyone else.

The economist in me agrees with you but where is she going to live? Just going to ship her out to West Virginia? I'd be OK w/it if you have a humane way to implement it but I doubt voters in the city would ever sign off on it.

Part of the problem with talking about some policies is differing visibilities of suffering. Yes, the old grandma who has lived in the same apartment for 50 years has very visible suffering if you make her apartment market rate. However, what about the people who were never able to move to NY to start their career and family because of the policy? Or a family that had to leave the city and everyone they knew because they couldn't afford it, and the grandma monopolized all of the 'affordable housing' benefit?

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#147

Post by westbywest »

kerkeslager wrote: post #102
ordinaryperson wrote: post #6

Easy to blame lack of affordable housing on AirBnB and not, say, rent control laws or the difficulty of building new housing stock in the city. I get not throwing grandma out of the $250/month 4BR she’s been living in for 50 years, but it means something like 200,000 rent-controlled/rent-stabilized units are also raising everyone else’s rent by decreasing inventory. The endless red tape in new construction makes non-…

> I get not throwing grandma out of the $250/month 4BR she’s been living in for 50 years, but it means something like 200,000 rent-controlled/rent-stabilized units are also raising everyone else’s rent by decreasing inventory. So you're saying that affordable housing is preventing housing from being affordable? LOL. > The endless red tape in new construction makes non-luxury bulidings unprofitable. Want cheaper rents…

> This is just a ridiculous HN meme at this point: every problem is caused by regulation and the only tool we're allowed to use to solve problems is incentives.

A data point amplifying this assertion is the situation in St. Louis, where tax incentives are handed out like candy to almost exclusively luxury developments. The city has seen several credit downgrades since 2015, with weak revenue raising ability cited in the most recent instance. The higher interest rates the city now pays on its financing are part of the reason why growth in tax revenue (including several sales tax hikes) has been fully nullified by cost increases, with the result being a net loss. Affordable housing development is sparse, since it's obvious to builders where they get the most favorable discounts.

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#148

Post by eric_h »

true_religion wrote: post #105
amorphid wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the landlord knew exactly what they were doing when they rented the apartment to Grandma. If the landlord didn't want to enter into a contract the involving rent control, they shouldn't have been in the business of renting NYC apartments.

Contract law usually doesn't allow for lifetime contracts because people can't consider such a long timespan logically. Rent control is the same thing. It forces a contract with on going payments and services with no end date. Is there any escape clause?

As far as I'm aware, people occupying rent controlled apartments (in NYC) can opt to be bought out by their landlord. I've heard a number of stories of people using that windfall (generally buyouts are on the order of $10^4-10^5) to improve their general living situation, and I've also heard stories (including someone I knew personally) of people squandering that windfall and ending up living out of their car.

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#149

Post by cma »

Quinner wrote: post #96
busterarm wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? Because rent control certainly myself and everyone I knew in a similar situation with a chance at class mobility. Rent control allowed my mom to stop being a cab driver and go to nursing school. Rent control facilitated me getting a really great education and career. I grew up needing food stamps, handmedown clothes and even shoes. How can you, with a straight face, tell me that bullshit?

Because you benefited at the cost of others. For everyone that has your success story, rent control causes a number of others to have even less access to affordable housing.

> benefited at the cost of others

The cost disproportionately affects the wealthy. Due to the marginal utility of money (your first $10,000 a year has a lot more utility than your 100th), that means even a zero-sum benefit was likely a huge net positive measured in utility.

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#150

Post by mjcl »

true_religion wrote: post #105
amorphid wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the landlord knew exactly what they were doing when they rented the apartment to Grandma. If the landlord didn't want to enter into a contract the involving rent control, they shouldn't have been in the business of renting NYC apartments.

Contract law usually doesn't allow for lifetime contracts because people can't consider such a long timespan logically. Rent control is the same thing. It forces a contract with on going payments and services with no end date. Is there any escape clause?

Isn't an NDA a lifetime contract?
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