What Airbnb Did to New York City • Hacker News Board

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#81

Post by murph-almighty » Thu, Mar 08, 2018, 3:17 PM UTC

ordinaryperson wrote: post #72

svantana wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Raise taxes on them enough and they move to NJ or CT and it's actually a net loss for the city. Theoretically, increased taxes shouldn't affect the cost of living, because the supply is fixed, and the market price is way above maintenance costs. The revenue will simply shift from the banks and landowners to the public. At least that's the theory, but it should work for a gradual tax increase.

Money for schools, roads, subways, police etc has to come from somewhere, and if high-income earners flee (because of being overtaxed) to nearby low-tax areas then taxes go up on everyone else to cover the shortfall, or services are cut. I favor a tax increase on the wealthy but I'm just saying implementing such a policy is more difficult than it sounds, especially because NJ and CT are so close by.

Not speaking for CT but the attractive locations in NJ are getting pricey fast- anywhere along a PATH stop has pretty high rent right now.

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#82

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Mar 08, 2018, 3:19 PM UTC

ordinaryperson wrote: post #6

Easy to blame lack of affordable housing on AirBnB and not, say, rent control laws or the difficulty of building new housing stock in the city. I get not throwing grandma out of the $250/month 4BR she’s been living in for 50 years, but it means something like 200,000 rent-controlled/rent-stabilized units are also raising everyone else’s rent by decreasing inventory. The endless red tape in new construction makes non-…

[deleted]

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#83

Post by busterarm » Thu, Mar 08, 2018, 3:20 PM UTC

wilde wrote: post #59

busterarm wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love this lie that everyone believes about rent control in NY where everyone is getting huge posh apartments for cheap. Almost all "rent stabilized" apartments in Manhattan are within spitting distance or throwing distance of market rate. Once a significant number of them cross the $2700/mo threshold in a building, the rent destabilizes. "Rent controlled" units account for less than 30,000 units in all of NYC. That…

It’s nice that you’re benefiting, but rent control is relatively well studied and it doesn’t achieve its aims. https://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2015/08/e...

One of the unmentioned goals of rent control at the time was to stop the mass exodus of people out of New York starting at the tail end of the 60s.

I live not far from The Deuce and my neighborhood was plagued with drug use, prostitution, muggings and homelessness. We stayed in our apartments in an extremely dangerous city while hordes of people left. My landlord wouldn't have her building still if not for rent regulation.

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#84

Post by sudouser » Thu, Mar 08, 2018, 3:21 PM UTC

devit wrote: post #64

peg_leg wrote: post #11

Air BnB is terrible for smaller, more touristy towns as well, like Traverse City, MI where housing prices and rents have skyrocketed. Used to be able to rent a granny flat as a service worker...those are all Air BnB'd now.

That seems a good thing economically. Imagine there's a place on Earth that is somehow truly amazing and fills you with happiness for a long time for just visiting it. Obviously, it makes sense to have as many different people as possible be able to appreciate it, which requires having them visit only one or a few nights. Clearly, people should not be able to monopolize a flat there for 365 days a year, and if they d…

lost you at obviously. you’re saying that cities should be ghost towns where nobody lives and every single place is an airbnb... because obviously we would like to have as many people see this amazing place

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#85

Post by randomdata » Thu, Mar 08, 2018, 3:22 PM UTC

teh_klev wrote: post #76

randomdata wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are always exceptions, but houses generally do not appreciate. Much like a car, they become outdated and wear out. With enough time and use, they even become completely uninhabitable. Each passing day sees less and less value in the home as it requires more and more cost to bring back up to pristine condition and costs start to compete with the value of a brand new home. Of course, if you keep your home in good…

> There are always exceptions, but houses generally do not appreciate. Much like a car, they become outdated and wear out. Erm....have you seen what the property market is like in the UK. Most, if not all, property appreciates with little or no major expenditure.

In saying property you're presumably looking at the land value combined with the remaining value of the structure, not the value of structure alone? Typically they are not separate line items in a sale even though if you did separate them you would see that the land is generally appreciating and the house generally depreciating.

There are exceptions. Markets can do funny things from time to time, form irrational bubbles and whatnot. Even cars sometimes appreciate without any major repair or refurbishment costs. Tulips were once an appreciating asset, as the story goes. But as a rule, things that become outdated, wear out, and die lose value over time.

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#86

Post by sudouser » Thu, Mar 08, 2018, 3:23 PM UTC

visarga wrote: post #69

nugi wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All 4 happened with regularity before uber. Are you literally 12? And how did mentioning that minorities were disproportionately affected become calling either company racist? The only racisim i see is buried in the assumptions made in your comment.

I think the grandparent poster was right - AirBnb opens up a way for people to see life in communities that were difficult to access before. That's what I appreciate most about it - how natural it feels to live like a local person. Living in a hotel while travelling feels artificial now.

you’re saying that cities should be ghost towns where nobody lives and every single place is an airbnb... because obviously we would like to have as many people see this amazing community uh?

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#87

Post by ordinaryperson » Thu, Mar 08, 2018, 3:26 PM UTC

bogomipz wrote: post #74

ordinaryperson wrote: post #6

Easy to blame lack of affordable housing on AirBnB and not, say, rent control laws or the difficulty of building new housing stock in the city. I get not throwing grandma out of the $250/month 4BR she’s been living in for 50 years, but it means something like 200,000 rent-controlled/rent-stabilized units are also raising everyone else’s rent by decreasing inventory. The endless red tape in new construction makes non-…

>"... or the difficulty of building new housing stock in the city." What difficulty? I'm guessing you haven't visited NYC in quite some tie. New York City has experienced an almost continuous building boom for the last 20 years. See the NYC Construction Dashboard: http://www1.nyc.gov/assets/buildings/html/dob-development-re... Note the the graph for "NYC Employment: Construction of Buildings (2000 - 2016)" >"The endl…

I've lived here in NYC for decades.

Most of the new buildings that go up are luxury condos, out of reach for mere mortals like myself.

I actually purchased a condo in a new building in one of the neighborhoods this article mentioned about a decade ago but I was never able to move in, even after signing the contract, because the city wouldn't grant a certificate of housing occupancy to the builder (long story). But yes, I've personally lived the red tape issue.

It's not exactly parallel but check out this NYT article from December about why the 2nd Ave Subway was so outrageously over-priced -- while most people aren't tunnelling under Manhattan the issue of overpriced construction applies to all 5 boros: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/nyregion/new-york-subway-...

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#88

Post by amorphid » Thu, Mar 08, 2018, 3:30 PM UTC

murph-almighty wrote: post #80

amorphid wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, that's like saying grandma doesn't deserve to keep $2 million house she bought many years ago for $20 thousand because someone with $2 million wants her property.

Why so? Here Grandma owns the house, but in the other situation she doesn't own the apartment, the landlord does.

Because the landlord knew exactly what they were doing when they rented the apartment to Grandma. If the landlord didn't want to enter into a contract the involving rent control, they shouldn't have been in the business of renting NYC apartments.

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#89

Post by user9182031 » Thu, Mar 08, 2018, 3:30 PM UTC

ohgodmorecow wrote: post #29

ordinaryperson wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By trying to force them out any way possible: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/05/opinion/sunday/how-to-for...

"upon completing the work, rented the place out for $2,900/month." Oh my god, how is it possible for anyone to pay that much? 2800$ is about the general income / month here.

I pay $4000/month for a crummy apartment on the lower west side..

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#90

Post by knuththetruth » Thu, Mar 08, 2018, 3:34 PM UTC

busterarm wrote: post #77

wilde wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s nice that you’re benefiting, but rent control is relatively well studied and it doesn’t achieve its aims. https://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2015/08/e...

Really? Because rent control certainly myself and everyone I knew in a similar situation with a chance at class mobility. Rent control allowed my mom to stop being a cab driver and go to nursing school. Rent control facilitated me getting a really great education and career. I grew up needing food stamps, handmedown clothes and even shoes. How can you, with a straight face, tell me that bullshit?

Because to the kind of people who leap to the defense of businesses like Airbnb and slag off rent control, this is just an abstraction. They don’t know or care about the poor people who these policies helped, and think they’ll find some measure of safety by aligning themselves with the Capital class.

They won’t in the long run, but that’s where we are now.