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What Airbnb Did to New York City

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Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#71

Post by ordinaryperson »

pc86 wrote: post #46
ordinaryperson wrote: post #6

Easy to blame lack of affordable housing on AirBnB and not, say, rent control laws or the difficulty of building new housing stock in the city. I get not throwing grandma out of the $250/month 4BR she’s been living in for 50 years, but it means something like 200,000 rent-controlled/rent-stabilized units are also raising everyone else’s rent by decreasing inventory. The endless red tape in new construction makes non-…

> I get not throwing grandma out of the $250/month 4BR she’s been living in for 50 years Sorry, but not when the 2BR across the hall is renting for $4,000/mo and is on the market for 4 hours before someone gets it. Grandma doesn't have a right to live in the exact same apartment for the rest of her life at the expense of everyone else.

The economist in me agrees with you but where is she going to live? Just going to ship her out to West Virginia?

I'd be OK w/it if you have a humane way to implement it but I doubt voters in the city would ever sign off on it.

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#72

Post by ordinaryperson »

svantana wrote: post #70
ordinaryperson wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From Crown Heights and Bed Stuy (two of the neighborhoods singled out in the article) it's about a 45-60 minute commute into Manhattan via the subway -- not exactly "living centrally." Are people supposed to live 2 hours out? > instead channel the revenue away from the rent-seekers and into the hands of the public (i.e. by increasing property taxes) Good luck getting that passed. And while I'm in favor of higher taxe…

> Raise taxes on them enough and they move to NJ or CT and it's actually a net loss for the city. Theoretically, increased taxes shouldn't affect the cost of living, because the supply is fixed, and the market price is way above maintenance costs. The revenue will simply shift from the banks and landowners to the public. At least that's the theory, but it should work for a gradual tax increase.

Money for schools, roads, subways, police etc has to come from somewhere, and if high-income earners flee (because of being overtaxed) to nearby low-tax areas then taxes go up on everyone else to cover the shortfall, or services are cut.

I favor a tax increase on the wealthy but I'm just saying implementing such a policy is more difficult than it sounds, especially because NJ and CT are so close by.

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#73

Post by amorphid »

pc86 wrote: post #46
ordinaryperson wrote: post #6

Easy to blame lack of affordable housing on AirBnB and not, say, rent control laws or the difficulty of building new housing stock in the city. I get not throwing grandma out of the $250/month 4BR she’s been living in for 50 years, but it means something like 200,000 rent-controlled/rent-stabilized units are also raising everyone else’s rent by decreasing inventory. The endless red tape in new construction makes non-…

> I get not throwing grandma out of the $250/month 4BR she’s been living in for 50 years Sorry, but not when the 2BR across the hall is renting for $4,000/mo and is on the market for 4 hours before someone gets it. Grandma doesn't have a right to live in the exact same apartment for the rest of her life at the expense of everyone else.

To me, that's like saying grandma doesn't deserve to keep $2 million house she bought many years ago for $20 thousand because someone with $2 million wants her property.

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#74

Post by bogomipz »

ordinaryperson wrote: post #6

Easy to blame lack of affordable housing on AirBnB and not, say, rent control laws or the difficulty of building new housing stock in the city. I get not throwing grandma out of the $250/month 4BR she’s been living in for 50 years, but it means something like 200,000 rent-controlled/rent-stabilized units are also raising everyone else’s rent by decreasing inventory. The endless red tape in new construction makes non-…

>"... or the difficulty of building new housing stock in the city."

What difficulty? I'm guessing you haven't visited NYC in quite some tie. New York City has experienced an almost continuous building boom for the last 20 years. See the NYC Construction Dashboard:

http://www1.nyc.gov/assets/buildings/html/dob-development-re...

Note the the graph for "NYC Employment: Construction of Buildings (2000 - 2016)"

>"The endless red tape in new construction makes non-luxury bulidings unprofitable."

"Luxury" has become little more than a cliche marketing term used in promotional material. Almost all new construction has things like a roof deck or Amazon lockers and so is termed as "luxury."

Please provide a citation or any evidence that demonstrates the existence of "endless red tape" in NYC as a barrier to new construction.

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#75

Post by jonknee »

MisterTea wrote: post #65
stevenking86l wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lived in Manhattan for 6 years 2011-2017 in The East Village. Made about half that. 1 roommate. 2 bedroom. Occasionally worked a side job (tutoring) but was for extra cash more than necessity. I was working in the live music industry so I had free access to a lot of live shows around town which allowed me to save money but still do the things that make living in NYC Great. It’s very possible. Was kind to my landlord,…

> "Lived in Manhattan for 6 years 2011-2017 in The East Village. Made about half that. 1 roommate. 2 bedroom." "It’s very possible." Did you pay the rent yourself on that ~75k? Of course not. You paid half and your roomate the other half. Your answer is not really valid as you proved your income at the time was not enough to afford the apartment.

Well it was a two bedroom apartment...

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#76

Post by teh_klev »

randomdata wrote: post #58
Spooky23 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nooo. Trailers are the country ghetto. Unlike houses they are depreciating assets. So if you are fortunate enough to own your land and dwelling, unlike a home the value curve trends towards zero. The land value is the only asset, and doesn’t build much wealth. Expensive rent in a rural area means people get pushed further away. In the medical practice that my mom worked at, employees commuted as far as 100 miles.

There are always exceptions, but houses generally do not appreciate. Much like a car, they become outdated and wear out. With enough time and use, they even become completely uninhabitable. Each passing day sees less and less value in the home as it requires more and more cost to bring back up to pristine condition and costs start to compete with the value of a brand new home. Of course, if you keep your home in good…

> There are always exceptions, but houses generally do not appreciate. Much like a car, they become outdated and wear out.

Erm....have you seen what the property market is like in the UK. Most, if not all, property appreciates with little or no major expenditure.

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#77

Post by busterarm »

wilde wrote: post #59
busterarm wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love this lie that everyone believes about rent control in NY where everyone is getting huge posh apartments for cheap. Almost all "rent stabilized" apartments in Manhattan are within spitting distance or throwing distance of market rate. Once a significant number of them cross the $2700/mo threshold in a building, the rent destabilizes. "Rent controlled" units account for less than 30,000 units in all of NYC. That…

It’s nice that you’re benefiting, but rent control is relatively well studied and it doesn’t achieve its aims. https://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2015/08/e...

Really? Because rent control certainly myself and everyone I knew in a similar situation with a chance at class mobility.

Rent control allowed my mom to stop being a cab driver and go to nursing school. Rent control facilitated me getting a really great education and career.

I grew up needing food stamps, handmedown clothes and even shoes. How can you, with a straight face, tell me that bullshit?

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#78

Post by muse900 »

ordinaryperson wrote: post #6

Easy to blame lack of affordable housing on AirBnB and not, say, rent control laws or the difficulty of building new housing stock in the city. I get not throwing grandma out of the $250/month 4BR she’s been living in for 50 years, but it means something like 200,000 rent-controlled/rent-stabilized units are also raising everyone else’s rent by decreasing inventory. The endless red tape in new construction makes non-…

Personal experience and this has nothing to do with New York City but I can understand the article POV.

I recently moved to an island in Greece. The small town am living in, has the exact same issue that the article is describing, yet even worse.

Everyone, literally EVERYONE, has their apartments/houses/properties that they don't live in, turned into Airbnb's. Doesn't matter if its in the town center or 30 miles out of the town center. Government only just now sort of regulated airbnb renting. (Average rent per month is 300 euros. During the busy period which starts at April and ends November someone can make 100euros a day from that apartment)

Up to now the town I am living in and every single village in its radius, had a massive housing issue. You couldn't find anything to rent. I had an issue with renting as well, and I was well willing to pay way above the normal to get something as I do work for a foreign company that pays me the salary of a western country.

I don't know how much of this applies to New York and if the article is going the right way with it, but I can most definitely reflect my own experience to that article.

I think Airbnb and anything that is similar should get regulated. I think Airbnb came in at a time where laws/regulations weren't in place for such a thing, or were very light, and it made sense for people to rent out their 2nd homes for it. Although it has created a massive issue with finding a home. As I mentioned above someone can make 3 times or more the money that he'd be making in a year of rent from 3-4 months of renting to airbnb.

Another massive issue that Airbnb and similar sites have also created in the area I live in is that the small hotel owners and family hotel owners are getting slowly out of business. That is happening because obviously the massive hotels can offer full packages and whatever and will always be profitable, but smaller ones still have to pay a lot of money on tax, licences and offer some sort of services that an airbnb owner didn't have to up until now in my area. Even now that its sort of regulated, airbnb owners are still going to have a better time than the small hotel owners.

So yes all in all, airbnb and similar sites, create a massive issue and I feel like something should be done about it.

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#79

Post by ghaff »

louisswiss wrote: post #10
ironjunkie wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of agree with you. Don't even think living in Manhattan if you don't pull at least 150k$. (Or be ready for some of those roomshare situations). I'm also amazed by the average night price at Manhattan hotels. Even during normal weeks, the cheapest is well above 300$/night.

Hotel Tonight app has 10+ hotels for under $160/night (for tonight) - that's with just a casual scroll...

And add about 25% in taxes to that. Plus I can assure you that barring unusual circumstances cheap hotels (and $200 isn't exactly "cheap" in my book) in Manhattan are probably best avoided. Mind you, in my experience as a business traveler, hotel prices in San Francisco are often higher than Manhattan in any case.

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#80

Post by murph-almighty »

amorphid wrote: post #73
pc86 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I get not throwing grandma out of the $250/month 4BR she’s been living in for 50 years Sorry, but not when the 2BR across the hall is renting for $4,000/mo and is on the market for 4 hours before someone gets it. Grandma doesn't have a right to live in the exact same apartment for the rest of her life at the expense of everyone else.

To me, that's like saying grandma doesn't deserve to keep $2 million house she bought many years ago for $20 thousand because someone with $2 million wants her property.

Why so? Here Grandma owns the house, but in the other situation she doesn't own the apartment, the landlord does.
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