Steve Jurvetson is out at his own VC firm after allegations of sexual harassment • Hacker News Board

Re: Steve Jurvetson is out at his own VC firm after allegations of sexual harassment

#151

Post by aaron695 » Tue, Nov 14, 2017, 4:53 AM UTC

abiox wrote: post #144

aaron695 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume english is not your first language. Fondling is not even close to the word touching. Fondling is about sexuality. Touching is a physical action. You touch a cup. You touch a dog. You touch a touch screen. You touch someone when you shake their hand. Roughly, you can't fondle a cup. You wouldn't say you fondle a dog, and you won't say you fondle friends and family. (And I do know spaces my workmates are in...…

not everyone shares this aggressive need for touching that you seem to be describing. if human beings matter to you, hopefully you can see this.

My objection is when people in the work place want to shake hands, pat someone on the back, hug someone in distress you want to aggressively forbid it.

It's not your thing, and that's totally ok.

But putting these values onto other hurts them. Cold workplaces cause mental illness for many people.

Forcing your values on other consenting adults if what I disagree with.

If you don't want to shake hands, I wouldn't think twice. Stopping others....

Re: Steve Jurvetson is out at his own VC firm after allegations of sexual harassment

#152

Post by s17n » Tue, Nov 14, 2017, 5:34 AM UTC

jparse wrote: post #131

s17n wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These guys are all pretty obviously guilty, so I don't see the need to worry. Just follow two simple rules and you'll be fine: 1. Don't sexually assault / harass anybody. 2. Maintain clear boundaries with anybody you have a position of power over - even if it seems completely consensual you just can't hook up or have a romantic relationship with them.

I am not sure SFJ is guilty. Basically, he was overly critical of ideas and pitches he received. The opposing party had their feelings hurt which they attribute to them being female.

Well given that afaik nothing has been said publicly, there's not much to discuss, but I doubt that he would have been ousted from DFJ without a reason.

It is of course possible that this is DFJ freaking out and cutting him loose despite his innocence but that is not the most likely explanation.

Re: Steve Jurvetson is out at his own VC firm after allegations of sexual harassment

#153

Post by s17n » Tue, Nov 14, 2017, 5:35 AM UTC

ghostbrainalpha wrote: post #42

hkmurakami wrote: post #27

Following these very visible and high profile falls from grace, in politics, media and entertainment, and high tech, there must be some legitimate concerns that in the near future the Billy Graham rule [1] (or lately called the Graham-Pence rule) will find more followers than before. Many men in power will instinctually and subconsciously cut out women from their professional lives more than before, to the detriment…

I know this might not be a popular opinion. But I've basically instituted a modified version of this rule for myself. Billy Graham and Mike Pence are definitely not a fountain a good ideas, but that doesn't mean this rule is that bad, despite the nonsense place it comes from. Whenever I need to have after work dinner/social communication with a female associate after 5:00pm, I just go out of my way to invite another…

Easy fix: just apply the same rule to men and women.

If you don't do that, then yeah you're a jerk.

Re: Steve Jurvetson is out at his own VC firm after allegations of sexual harassment

#154

Post by tscs37 » Tue, Nov 14, 2017, 5:36 AM UTC

egwynn wrote: post #67

hkmurakami wrote: post #27

Following these very visible and high profile falls from grace, in politics, media and entertainment, and high tech, there must be some legitimate concerns that in the near future the Billy Graham rule [1] (or lately called the Graham-Pence rule) will find more followers than before. Many men in power will instinctually and subconsciously cut out women from their professional lives more than before, to the detriment…

many others will make a fear-driven overreaction. This. The actual risk involved here (job loss due to fraudulent accusations) must be so tiny as to be negligible.

Humans don't work by actual risk and rather by perceived risk.

Re: Steve Jurvetson is out at his own VC firm after allegations of sexual harassment

#155

Post by s17n » Tue, Nov 14, 2017, 5:41 AM UTC

downandout wrote: post #11

This may get downvotes, but the speed with which careers are being destroyed based on mere allegations of sexual misconduct these days is frightening. While the allegations in this case may or may not be true, it is actually possible for a woman to make a false allegation of sexual misconduct. There are myriad reasons that someone would make make such a false allegation against a powerful VC. Yet in today’s environme…

Steve Jurvetson, at the end of this, will still be wealthy and powerful. Even if he is innocent, him losing his job is a small price to pay when balanced against the countless women who are harassed and assaulted every day.

And let's be clear, he's probably not innocent.

Re: Steve Jurvetson is out at his own VC firm after allegations of sexual harassment

#156

Post by s17n » Tue, Nov 14, 2017, 5:45 AM UTC

downandout wrote: post #80

egwynn wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not convinced that "career death due to fraudulent sexual misconduct allegations” is a ramptant problem in tech. Based on nearly 100% of women I’ve ever known in tech, the vast majority of sexual misconduct either goes unreported or gets reported and ignored. Maybe you have some better data about this, though. If so, do share. And besides, I have a hard time imagining that a large VC firm would fire one of its fo…

If there were proof - emails, texts, etc - it would have been leaked to recode and other publications to avoid perceptions like mine. Public disclosures of these kinds of actions are meticulously calculated. Mr. Jurveston clearly disputes the allegations, to the point where he is promising litigation. The lack of evidence publicly presented likely means that it is a flimsy accusation - likely a “he said/she said” kin…

You are just making shit up here.

Re: Steve Jurvetson is out at his own VC firm after allegations of sexual harassment

#157

Post by inuhj » Tue, Nov 14, 2017, 6:11 AM UTC

egwynn wrote: post #105

jparse wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The threat model is an accusation. You are toast if you even get one accusation because it is cheaper to just get rid of you even if you are innocent. Frankly, I think he is not being cautious enough because the term "sexual harassment" has also moved into the realm of disagreement. Maybe you don't like her work and criticize it or maybe you are her boss and not agreeing with her performance. Most women quickly figur…

Yes, accusations were what I had in mind when I framed it as “threat model” in the question. it is cheaper to just get rid of you even if you are innocent Is it? One clearly has some value to their employer. Replacing an employee isn’t free either. It’s also not “free” to add social friction to interactions with one's coworkers. As best I know, this has never happened to anyone in / near my social network. That leads…

Say you have an employee who is being considered for management. They allegedly said some pretty nasty things to another employee. When you interview their colleagues no one will corroborate the story. Do you think they will still seriously be considered for management? Nope.

Re: Steve Jurvetson is out at his own VC firm after allegations of sexual harassment

#158

Post by vkou » Tue, Nov 14, 2017, 6:24 AM UTC

inuhj wrote: post #157

egwynn wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, accusations were what I had in mind when I framed it as “threat model” in the question. it is cheaper to just get rid of you even if you are innocent Is it? One clearly has some value to their employer. Replacing an employee isn’t free either. It’s also not “free” to add social friction to interactions with one's coworkers. As best I know, this has never happened to anyone in / near my social network. That leads…

Say you have an employee who is being considered for management. They allegedly said some pretty nasty things to another employee. When you interview their colleagues no one will corroborate the story. Do you think they will still seriously be considered for management? Nope.

There are plenty of people who have become managers after verifiably saying nasty things to other employees.

Re: Steve Jurvetson is out at his own VC firm after allegations of sexual harassment

#159

Post by woolvalley » Tue, Nov 14, 2017, 6:28 AM UTC

astura wrote: post #141

woolvalley wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You spend the majority of you life in work, and to avoid making friends with some people you spend time with is very isolating. I'm not going to the weekly board game thing because then, gasp, I might make friends! Imagine if we applied the same standards to school. I think this attitude is part of the reason why adults have a hard time making friends after college.

Woah, I do not spend the majority of my time at work! For a given week I am awake for approximately 112 hours but I only spend 40 at work, so less than 36% of a given week is spent at work. During work I am usually too busy, uh, working to really socialize. I mean, I'm friendly, there's water cooler banter, but I've got work to do. I socialize plenty, just outside of the office with people who aren't my colleagues. I…

Thats too bad, I've made some friends (as in gone to weddings level) from work, and we've helped each other throughout the years. I've also made work acquaintances that I've referenced in the past and we've worked together again as a result. They are great to work with.

I used to be like you, and I found it actually put me back in life richness. After I started seeing another non-work friend making friends from work and inviting them to social things, I realized it wasn't a bad thing to be open to be making friends. Your not going to make friends from most people you meet, just like school, but it is a possibility. I think part of the reason why you find them %99.99* shallow is because you might not be open to it.

It's also quite funny that article cites china, japan and so on as places with more formalized boundaries, where it's pretty much tradition that you go out drinking with colleagues every, single, night and you work a fucking shit ton.

What I'm suggesting is to not be afraid of it. If there is some optional board game night that seem enjoyable, and you like it, go do it! If you really click with someone that you have lunch breaks with on your team, it's not a bad thing! If you don't connect with anyone, there is nothing wrong with that either.

Re: Steve Jurvetson is out at his own VC firm after allegations of sexual harassment

#160

Post by vkou » Tue, Nov 14, 2017, 6:33 AM UTC

Danihan wrote: post #81

ben_jones wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had this conversation the other day. HR exists to protect the firm, if that involves sweeping things under the rug, disparaging victims, or enabling illegal behavior by high performers, they will, and historically have, done it.

HR departments are intended to protect the company from liability. Generally speaking, they do that by taking standardized actions regarding harassment claims because otherwise they open the company up to lawsuits and negative PR. Basically, it's irrational to try to cover up or ignore harassment in the vast majority of cases. Which is why HR is a perfectly decent solution for most of these issues, and we only hear a…

HR does what their bosses tell them to. If the company culture is more conductive to sweeping the transgressions of a director under the rug, then to firing them, then HR will do just that. After all, the director/c-level/partner is making them millions of dollars, and well, most people won't file a lawsuit over a few dozen inappropriate comments or invitations to a hotel room. (Good luck getting a reference after you do.)

Engineers are also supposed to build bug-free software, but when your boss tells you to ship the product, you're going to ship it. If the company gets sued because your product has bugs, you're not going to be personally liable.