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Steve Jurvetson is out at his own VC firm after allegations of sexual harassment

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Re: Steve Jurvetson is out at his own VC firm after allegations of sexual harassment

#101

Post by s17n »

hkmurakami wrote: post #27

Following these very visible and high profile falls from grace, in politics, media and entertainment, and high tech, there must be some legitimate concerns that in the near future the Billy Graham rule [1] (or lately called the Graham-Pence rule) will find more followers than before. Many men in power will instinctually and subconsciously cut out women from their professional lives more than before, to the detriment…

These guys are all pretty obviously guilty, so I don't see the need to worry. Just follow two simple rules and you'll be fine:

1. Don't sexually assault / harass anybody.

2. Maintain clear boundaries with anybody you have a position of power over - even if it seems completely consensual you just can't hook up or have a romantic relationship with them.

Re: Steve Jurvetson is out at his own VC firm after allegations of sexual harassment

#102

Post by ringaroundthetx »

hkmurakami wrote: post #27

Following these very visible and high profile falls from grace, in politics, media and entertainment, and high tech, there must be some legitimate concerns that in the near future the Billy Graham rule [1] (or lately called the Graham-Pence rule) will find more followers than before. Many men in power will instinctually and subconsciously cut out women from their professional lives more than before, to the detriment…

Or reputation insurance products pick up, anybody interested?

Asking for a VC

Re: Steve Jurvetson is out at his own VC firm after allegations of sexual harassment

#103

Post by andai »

jparse wrote: post #100
egwynn wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno if I’d say that makes you a jerk, but it strikes me as maybe a little overcautious. As with any security/safety issue, I think it comes down to the threat model you’re using. What’s the attack vector you’re protecting against? How likely is it that any attempt on that vector will succeed? What’s the damage if it succeeds? Speaking for myself, it never seems like I need to go too far out of my normal mode in o…

The threat model is an accusation. You are toast if you even get one accusation because it is cheaper to just get rid of you even if you are innocent. Frankly, I think he is not being cautious enough because the term "sexual harassment" has also moved into the realm of disagreement. Maybe you don't like her work and criticize it or maybe you are her boss and not agreeing with her performance. Most women quickly figur…

Not cautious enough?

Re: Steve Jurvetson is out at his own VC firm after allegations of sexual harassment

#104

Post by Overtonwindow »

hkmurakami wrote: post #27

Following these very visible and high profile falls from grace, in politics, media and entertainment, and high tech, there must be some legitimate concerns that in the near future the Billy Graham rule [1] (or lately called the Graham-Pence rule) will find more followers than before. Many men in power will instinctually and subconsciously cut out women from their professional lives more than before, to the detriment…

I avoid women in my professional life as much as I possible can. My work is in politics, and if I absolutely must work with a woman, I do all I can to make that interaction as open, transparent, documented, and inclusive with others as possible. You will never catch me alone in an office with a woman. I know colleagues who refuse to even interview or consider women for positions because they are afraid of anything that might be said or implied later, and becoming a liability.

Re: Steve Jurvetson is out at his own VC firm after allegations of sexual harassment

#105

Post by egwynn »

jparse wrote: post #100
egwynn wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno if I’d say that makes you a jerk, but it strikes me as maybe a little overcautious. As with any security/safety issue, I think it comes down to the threat model you’re using. What’s the attack vector you’re protecting against? How likely is it that any attempt on that vector will succeed? What’s the damage if it succeeds? Speaking for myself, it never seems like I need to go too far out of my normal mode in o…

The threat model is an accusation. You are toast if you even get one accusation because it is cheaper to just get rid of you even if you are innocent. Frankly, I think he is not being cautious enough because the term "sexual harassment" has also moved into the realm of disagreement. Maybe you don't like her work and criticize it or maybe you are her boss and not agreeing with her performance. Most women quickly figur…

Yes, accusations were what I had in mind when I framed it as “threat model” in the question.

    it is cheaper to just get rid of you even
    if you are innocent
Is it? One clearly has some value to their employer. Replacing an employee isn’t free either. It’s also not “free” to add social friction to interactions with one's coworkers.

As best I know, this has never happened to anyone in / near my social network. That leads me to believe that this isn’t something that happens very often in the general population (unless I’m an outlier). And if it’s so rare, then it doesn’t seem to be worth going out of my way for.

Re: Steve Jurvetson is out at his own VC firm after allegations of sexual harassment

#106

Post by Overtonwindow »

s17n wrote: post #101
hkmurakami wrote: post #27

Following these very visible and high profile falls from grace, in politics, media and entertainment, and high tech, there must be some legitimate concerns that in the near future the Billy Graham rule [1] (or lately called the Graham-Pence rule) will find more followers than before. Many men in power will instinctually and subconsciously cut out women from their professional lives more than before, to the detriment…

These guys are all pretty obviously guilty, so I don't see the need to worry. Just follow two simple rules and you'll be fine: 1. Don't sexually assault / harass anybody. 2. Maintain clear boundaries with anybody you have a position of power over - even if it seems completely consensual you just can't hook up or have a romantic relationship with them.

That's easier said than done. Sexual harassment is used as a weapon, but so is the accusation of harassment. I do not put it past women to fabricate these things to get their way. The danger is just too high because as a man, regardless of the accusation, or circumstances, we are guilty until proven innocent. It takes an enormous amount of evidence to clear a man from a wrongful accusation made by a woman. There's just too much risk to even take a chance.

Re: Steve Jurvetson is out at his own VC firm after allegations of sexual harassment

#107

Post by MsMowz »

tankenmate wrote: post #16
MsMowz wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Yet in today’s environment, even if he ultimately proves himself to be innocent through the lawsuit he claims he is going to file against his accuser, a career death sentence has already been carried out by a virtual lynch mob. That is wrong. Has this ever actually happened?

Sometimes it isn't just career death https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Sargeant

I was talking about being falsely accused. All signs in his case are that he actually did it.

Re: Steve Jurvetson is out at his own VC firm after allegations of sexual harassment

#108

Post by sitkack »

Frondo wrote: post #74
shifter wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of feminists think this denies networking opportunities for women.

When men openly discuss not meeting with women because of a fear of being falsely accused (which itself is exceedingly rare) of inappropriate behavior or molestation, what are women supposed to conclude? That they aren't being denied networking opportunities or opportunities to build working relationships? What is a positive take-away for women from powerful or monied men saying, in public, "I am afraid of meeting wi…

What if white bosses said the same things about black employees? People's unit tests are tots broke.

Re: Steve Jurvetson is out at his own VC firm after allegations of sexual harassment

#109

Post by sitkack »

gozur88 wrote: post #69
shifter wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of feminists think this denies networking opportunities for women.

The feminists created the environment in which it becomes the smart thing to do.

> The feminists

The people who think women should be equal ...

Re: Steve Jurvetson is out at his own VC firm after allegations of sexual harassment

#110

Post by sitkack »

Overtonwindow wrote: post #104
hkmurakami wrote: post #27

Following these very visible and high profile falls from grace, in politics, media and entertainment, and high tech, there must be some legitimate concerns that in the near future the Billy Graham rule [1] (or lately called the Graham-Pence rule) will find more followers than before. Many men in power will instinctually and subconsciously cut out women from their professional lives more than before, to the detriment…

I avoid women in my professional life as much as I possible can. My work is in politics, and if I absolutely must work with a woman, I do all I can to make that interaction as open, transparent, documented, and inclusive with others as possible. You will never catch me alone in an office with a woman. I know colleagues who refuse to even interview or consider women for positions because they are afraid of anything th…

The breadth of thoughts you allow yourself is limiting your mind.
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