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American parenting is killing the American marriage (2014)

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Re: American parenting is killing the American marriage (2014)

#151

Post by wfo »

tvanantwerp wrote: post #21
tomp wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, most babies will become fresh college graduates (or not even that), so I'm not sure I really follow your line of thought.

When your kid is still a baby, you can dream that he/she will become a neurosurgeon or an astronaut. By the time the child has actually grown up and graduated with a degree in French poetry, your best hopes for them are dead.

Sounds like you shouldn't have children. If all that matters to you is being an astronaut or neurosurgeon or some other high-prestige but low-happiness job then you should do it yourself and stop talking about it on the internet: don't impose your twisted moral system where you judge human worth based on wealth on an innocent child who might create beautiful art or invent something new some day.

Re: American parenting is killing the American marriage (2014)

#152

Post by Atheros »

such_a_casual wrote: post #31
ajmurmann wrote: post #8

I never understood the sentiment of valuing babies over all else. To me it always seemed obvious that fresh college graduates are most valuable to society, since we just finished investing a ton of money into them. Babies on the other hand are easily replaced. I get this is mainly an emotional argument, but it's still startling to me how opposite it is to the purely economic argument I made above. In fact usually peo…

In terms of a 'purely economic argument', you have none. You're referring to a sunk cost: "are most valuable to society, since we just finished investing a ton of money into them" "In traditional microeconomic theory, only prospective (future) costs are relevant to an investment decision. Traditional economics proposes that economic actors should not let sunk costs influence their decisions. Doing so would not be rat…

But because we are not making an investment decision, there is no sunk cost fallacy. If we have two widgets and invest a lot of money into making the first widget better, and indeed it becomes better, it is not a sunk cost fallacy to call the first one more valuable.

Re: American parenting is killing the American marriage (2014)

#153

Post by Atheros »

philwelch wrote: post #11
ajmurmann wrote: post #8

I never understood the sentiment of valuing babies over all else. To me it always seemed obvious that fresh college graduates are most valuable to society, since we just finished investing a ton of money into them. Babies on the other hand are easily replaced. I get this is mainly an emotional argument, but it's still startling to me how opposite it is to the purely economic argument I made above. In fact usually peo…

Babies are full of potential. Fresh college graduates...let's be honest...are less so.

Actual ability is more valuable than potential ability.

Re: American parenting is killing the American marriage (2014)

#154

Post by Atheros »

such_a_casual wrote: post #56
pmikesell wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He has a perfectly valid economic argument. He's not saying it's the sunk cost that provides the value, it's the added overall value they provide by having a college education. The cost of getting that education could be a reasonable proxy for the value of the education, though imperfect. People usually make the sunk cost mistake when they aren't evaluating the immediate potential of the options, just the emotional t…

"He's not saying it's the sunk cost that provides the value" Actually, that's exactly what they said and I even quoted them on it.

It should be clear to you that he meant that they are valuable because they have at least an education. You are being pedantic.

Re: American parenting is killing the American marriage (2014)

#155

Post by lifeformed »

nommm-nommm wrote: post #59
ajmurmann wrote: post #8

I never understood the sentiment of valuing babies over all else. To me it always seemed obvious that fresh college graduates are most valuable to society, since we just finished investing a ton of money into them. Babies on the other hand are easily replaced. I get this is mainly an emotional argument, but it's still startling to me how opposite it is to the purely economic argument I made above. In fact usually peo…

> fresh college graduates are most valuable to society This seems to be a popular opinion on here and I really don't understand that. In fact its kinda fucked up. I can only guess there's a lot of fresh college grads on HN. It takes all kinds to make the world go 'round. I certainly don't want a society made up of fresh college grads who think they know it all.

Well, they're probably the broadest group with the most quantifiable potential for adding economic value to society.

Re: American parenting is killing the American marriage (2014)

#156

Post by dennisgorelik »

tinalumfoil wrote: post #138
Vexs wrote: post #3

While I think his insights on how we treat our children is amazingly insightful, and I love how it's described as a religion (the point that children are our sacred cows is very good in particular) his attempt to relate it to marriages seems shoehorned at best. There's a lot of problems with the way we treat children, but I think it's relation to marriage is the least of our issues. But seriously, the whole "children…

I don't think he's being insightful at all. All his observations seem to be shallow and his conclusions are weak. > parenthood became a religion in America...Nothing in life is allowed to be more important than our children...a human achieves its peak value at birth and declines thereafter Most Americans tend to believe their children come first. This isn't a religion, it's an evolutionary instinct. A species can't c…

> species can't continue if its organisms don't put enough effort into their offspring

"Enough effort" is not the same as "Nothing in life is allowed to be more important".

Re: American parenting is killing the American marriage (2014)

#157

Post by ryuker16 »

ajmurmann wrote: post #8

I never understood the sentiment of valuing babies over all else. To me it always seemed obvious that fresh college graduates are most valuable to society, since we just finished investing a ton of money into them. Babies on the other hand are easily replaced. I get this is mainly an emotional argument, but it's still startling to me how opposite it is to the purely economic argument I made above. In fact usually peo…

We have more college grads than jobs....we could lose a few.

Re: American parenting is killing the American marriage (2014)

#158

Post by ryuker16 »

dba7dba wrote: post #145

If this article were true, how can you explain lower divorce rate in Asian countries? China? S Korea? Japan?

Divorce rates skyrocketed when they started having dual incomes like ours.

The reason for less is cultural....plus, it's a bit easier to cheat and still stay married....most places aren't so hung up on "he cheated, let's divorce!" thing like the USA.

Re: American parenting is killing the American marriage (2014)

#159

Post by prawn »

javajosh wrote: post #135
nommm-nommm wrote: post #121

Call me callous but I always thought one of the most important lessons a child should learn is "its not all about you." I am so amazed when I see parents nowadays devoting their entire life to making sure their children are spared of any tiny little inconvenience. These children will be very poorly adjusted and these parents are rarely happy.

What if you were to engineer a situation with your kids where you a) teach them how to do something useful, and then b) put them in a situation where that useful thing needs to be done. If they don't take the cue, no problem. If they miss it, maybe have a 3rd party (like an aunt or an uncle) pitch in. Then maybe have that 3rd party ask the child if they know how to do that thing - and get the kid to get in the habit…

Always going to great lengths to teach your children important lessons like this is another form of putting them first (or at least up there).

I don't put loads of time into my kids to save them every inconvenience, but to give them a thirst for knowledge, etc.

Re: American parenting is killing the American marriage (2014)

#160

Post by [deleted] »

discardorama wrote: post #142
tinalumfoil wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think he's being insightful at all. All his observations seem to be shallow and his conclusions are weak. > parenthood became a religion in America...Nothing in life is allowed to be more important than our children...a human achieves its peak value at birth and declines thereafter Most Americans tend to believe their children come first. This isn't a religion, it's an evolutionary instinct. A species can't c…

> I don't think he's being insightful at all. All his observations seem to be shallow and his conclusions are weak. Thank you; you put it better than I could. A small example that demolishes his crackpot theory: we just had a kid a few weeks ago. We have a cat, who has never been around children, and who has never had children. And yet, when the child cries, the cat comes running; and if the cries do not subside soon…

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