Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

democrata.es

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 237 posts

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#141

Post by t0mas88 »

brendoelfrendo wrote: post #134
nhatcher wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Disclaimer: I don't know the first word about law) But I have been thinking about this quite a lot recently (mostly because I get angry at the power states sometimes have over individuals). Would the distinction really matter in this case?. I would think that in a "civil law" contry things could be even worse for the aggressor

It depends on the law in question. Civil law typically requires that the plaintiff's cause of action and desired remedy be defined in the relevant code or statute. This doesn't mean the average person is powerless; every civil code I know of will let you file a lawsuit for breach of contract, for example. I have no knowledge at all of Spanish law, though, so I have no idea who has grounds to sue whom and under what c…

You would do the same in a civil law country, sue the sports league and ISP. State that an "unlawful act" happened (blocking your service) and claim damages due to loss of traffic and the extra work it caused you.

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#142

Post by otherme123 »

Symbiote wrote: post #82
booi wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This statement really makes no sense.. > Google, Cloudflare, VPN providers, and other entities facilitating piracy are responsible for the illegal activities they enable and profit from. Why wouldn't ISPs be responsible too? or the cable modem providers? or the computer providers? or your eyes. Let's just blame all those things and not the person that made it or the person that consumes it.

Cloudflare are actively involved in publishing this content — they are equivalent to the hosting provider.

Not true, they just proxy the pirating sites to their true host. They have about the same responsability as the ISP themselves. Maybe you want Cloudflare to decide what to proxy and what to block without a judge ordering it.

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#143

Post by pier25 »

embedding-shape wrote: post #119
pier25 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the fact is that cloudflare are providing access to illegal content Why make CloudFlare ultimately responsible though? There are lots of companies between users and the servers providing pirated content. Cloudflare is just one step in the whole chain. Why not eg block Google Chrome? In any case, blocking Cloudflare was a stupid thing to do. Especially because it didn't anything to solve the actual problem.

> Why not eg block Google Chrome? I think you're not faithfully trying to adopt their perspective here, even if you don't agree with it (just like me). They need (in their mind, again I don't agree) to block these sites somehow, as they see it as them "stealing" viewers, judges agree with this. Now, where can the block be done, and have the least amount of collateral? Cloudflare is not playing ball and turning of the…

> I think you're not faithfully trying to adopt their perspective here

I think you're not seeing the bigger picture.

Somehow La Liga (a private company) was able to convince the courts that it should be able to ban IPs almost in real-time without any oversight from the law. This is just insane in a modern democracy and only benefitted La Liga. Certainly not the population of Spain for whom the courts work for.

Time has proven what anyone with two brain cells knew already. Blocking IPs was never going to do much to solve the issue. It's a wack-a-mole game. Cloudflare knew this and La Liga did too.

> where can the block be done, and have the least amount of collateral?

Blocking one of the biggest providers of internet infra was anything but "the least amount of collateral". Plenty of companies and services depend on Cloudflare.

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#144

Post by otherme123 »

echoangle wrote: post #64
matteason wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cloudflare are very much pushing back: https://www.laliga.com/en-GB/news/official-statement-in-rela...

> Through this conduct, Cloudflare is actively enabling illegal activities such as human trafficking, prostitution, pornography, counterfeiting, fraud, and scams, among other things. Pornography is illegal in Spain now?

Prostitution isn't illegal, is a-legal (the prostitutes register as waitress or similar). Pimping is illegal.

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#146

Post by brian-armstrong »

embedding-shape wrote: post #96
evilmonkey19 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, myself I have been greatly impacted by this measures. Several services of mine were unavailable because LaLiga said so. No notification, no justification, they block and that's all. It has been a shame since the beginning.

> No notification What ISP? I'm using Vodafone and if I accept the insecure connection (because of mismatched certificate), I get served the notification. You don't get that?

Why would you ever accept a mismatched certificate? Even assuming that you think your ISP has no nefarious plans, are you going to be able to rigorously confirm it's their certificate? At that point you've bypassed all the mechanisms in your browser that do this heavy lifting for you.

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#147

Post by matheusmoreira »

jerf wrote: post #50

One of the things that so often gets lost in politics is the concept of a stopping principle . If you know you want to do X, be it "enforce traffic tickets", "spend money chasing drug trafficking", or anything else, you really ought to be able to articulate some sort of stopping principle where you stop pouring the resources in. Maybe the problem is adequately solved. Maybe the further resources don't justify the tin…

Why not declare that the value of La Liga's "IP" is a net negative and holding society back, and then simply invalidate all of it on the spot?

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#148

Post by embedding-shape »

pier25 wrote: post #143
embedding-shape wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why not eg block Google Chrome? I think you're not faithfully trying to adopt their perspective here, even if you don't agree with it (just like me). They need (in their mind, again I don't agree) to block these sites somehow, as they see it as them "stealing" viewers, judges agree with this. Now, where can the block be done, and have the least amount of collateral? Cloudflare is not playing ball and turning of the…

> I think you're not faithfully trying to adopt their perspective here I think you're not seeing the bigger picture. Somehow La Liga (a private company) was able to convince the courts that it should be able to ban IPs almost in real-time without any oversight from the law. This is just insane in a modern democracy and only benefitted La Liga. Certainly not the population of Spain for whom the courts work for. Time h…

> Blocking IPs was never going to do much to solve the issue. It's a wack-a-mole game.

But that in their mind is "solving the issue, at that time". Why do you think they want to expand it to other sports now, because "doesn't do anything" or because they actually see some effect from it?

> Blocking one of the biggest providers of internet infra was anything but "the least amount of collateral". Plenty of companies and services depend on Cloudflare.

Ok, so given their perspective is "something must be done" and Cloudflare are not blocking the users after requests, what is the alternative here? Turning off the entire internet connection for individual users? Turning off all the internet during games? I really don't know what alternative could be possible, that still satisfies their "something must be done".

Again, I agree that this is an massive overstep, wildly miscalculated and I'm personally affected by this every time a football is on, I don't like it either.

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#149

Post by otherme123 »

nemomarx wrote: post #45
noIdeaTheSecond wrote: post #14

I understand organizations as LaLiga wanting more money but massive IP blockage seems quite unfair, effective maybe but unfair so this news does not come as a surprise.

Who says it's effective? The pirate streams still go up every game, as far as people report here. They can just change their ips or hosts occasionally. It's the honest businesses who probably won't go through the effort of evading the block every time.

Also, clients of the streaming sites are quick to find and spread workarounds, mainly VPNs. But the small shop in the same IP selling to middle/older aged lose business and look unreliable to their clients, that can't even spell VPN.

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#150

Post by embedding-shape »

brian-armstrong wrote: post #146
embedding-shape wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No notification What ISP? I'm using Vodafone and if I accept the insecure connection (because of mismatched certificate), I get served the notification. You don't get that?

Why would you ever accept a mismatched certificate? Even assuming that you think your ISP has no nefarious plans, are you going to be able to rigorously confirm it's their certificate? At that point you've bypassed all the mechanisms in your browser that do this heavy lifting for you.

Why wouldn't you? Your computer is not gonna be hijacked by it, and you want to see what shit your ISP is now up to.

Obviously I don't do my banking like that...

Post reply on HN