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Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

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Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#131

Post by mzajc »

embedding-shape wrote: post #106
tomnipotent wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumes you're using the ISP's DNS and not custom servers or DoH.

Bit hard to get notified by the ISP if you effectively try to side-step the way they notify you, don't you think? Also bit weird to blame them for that. If I recall correctly, if you try to access the IP directly you get the same notification. No football game on right now though so cannot check. Edit: In fact, I'm not sure they do DNS filtering at all actually, it may be just based on IP, can't remember off-hand, co…

ISPs have your contact information, and they can also put up notices on their own website. Hijacking somebody else's website with forged replies isn't "the way they notify you," it's a man-in-the-middle attack, and users shouldn't be trained or encouraged to accept it.

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#132

Post by jddj »

nalaj wrote: post #128
embedding-shape wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what the constitution says though. "Government" ("Gobierno") is what an American would understand "executive branch" to be, I'm guessing this is why it's confusing. I tried to make it easier by adding the translations, but maybe that's just making it more confusing :) I guess broadly in English you'd say the judges are part of the state, but they're not a part of the Spanish Government.

[flagged]

Language nit: in english, "add to that" is more natural

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#133

Post by hnlmorg »

pdpi wrote: post #117
hnlmorg wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

…and that was already enough to get Congress to review the situation. The first paragraph in the article we are discussing says: > The complaints about the massive fall of web pages caused by LaLiga's fight against piracy reached Congress months ago. And the Chamber is now preparing to take measures. But even ignoring the fact that TFA directly disproves your and the GP's argument, the point you're making that "x got…

The Cloudflare block has been in effect since December 2024, so it's been in effect almost a year and a half, and Congress is at the "will act", not "has acted" stage. And yes, of course you're right, that people have a pain threshold, but it's also true that people will normalise behaviour over time. I'm not saying further blockages will happen, just that I don't take it for granted that they won't.

Nobody was claiming that future blockages couldn’t happen.

The argument I was disagreeing with was the statement that “a total internet block is the logical conclusion”

Which it isn’t. But, and as I said in my comment you claimed to disagree with, that doesn’t mean things can’t still get worse.

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#134

Post by brendoelfrendo »

nhatcher wrote: post #120
bobthepanda wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know that this would work that well given Spain is civil law, not common law

(Disclaimer: I don't know the first word about law) But I have been thinking about this quite a lot recently (mostly because I get angry at the power states sometimes have over individuals). Would the distinction really matter in this case?. I would think that in a "civil law" contry things could be even worse for the aggressor

It depends on the law in question. Civil law typically requires that the plaintiff's cause of action and desired remedy be defined in the relevant code or statute. This doesn't mean the average person is powerless; every civil code I know of will let you file a lawsuit for breach of contract, for example. I have no knowledge at all of Spanish law, though, so I have no idea who has grounds to sue whom and under what code. If a similar situation happened the US, you'd probably file a lawsuit against Cloudflare, the ISPs, and the relevant sports league and sort it out in court.

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#135

Post by devmor »

embedding-shape wrote: post #106
tomnipotent wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumes you're using the ISP's DNS and not custom servers or DoH.

Bit hard to get notified by the ISP if you effectively try to side-step the way they notify you, don't you think? Also bit weird to blame them for that. If I recall correctly, if you try to access the IP directly you get the same notification. No football game on right now though so cannot check. Edit: In fact, I'm not sure they do DNS filtering at all actually, it may be just based on IP, can't remember off-hand, co…

Hijacking secured connections to inject a payload that doesn’t actually come from the source is not a legitimate form of notification - it’s a malicious infrastructure attack.

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#136

Post by walrus01 »

hnlmorg wrote: post #78
jerf wrote: post #50

One of the things that so often gets lost in politics is the concept of a stopping principle . If you know you want to do X, be it "enforce traffic tickets", "spend money chasing drug trafficking", or anything else, you really ought to be able to articulate some sort of stopping principle where you stop pouring the resources in. Maybe the problem is adequately solved. Maybe the further resources don't justify the tin…

> Taken to its logical conclusion, and I do mean "logical" and not "rhetorically overblown for effect", this comes perilously close to just declaring that the value of the Internet is so net negative due to piracy that it should just be shut down in Spain. What you’ve described there is completely overblown for rhetoric. The internet is still needed for delivering legal streams of matches. So there’s never going to b…

Blocking large swathes of cloudflare IP space at the entire CIDR range level has significant negative repercussions on thousands of other completely non-football related companies, governments, non-profits, personal projects who are hosting content on them. It's absolutely unfair to those impacted by this extremely heavy handed method.

It's like saying there's some people who have been seen selling counterfeit made in China purses from a blanket in a street market in one particular neighborhood in a big city, so we're going to erect a roadblock to all vehicle and pedestrian traffic, and cut off metro train access to the area.

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#137

Post by devmor »

prmoustache wrote: post #92
booi wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To say that Telefonica offers even remotely the same services and features that Cloudflare does is a lie at best.

The keyword was "some".

In the same way that a roadside lemonade stand run by a child offers some of the same services as a grocery store.

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#138

Post by tyrannomachy »

pretzel5297 wrote: post #46
lostlogin wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m suprised no one has sued over it, some sort of class action.

Who would you sue? The courts?

In the US, I think it would be covered by this: https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcp/rule_24

So presumably the analogue to that in Spain.

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#140

Post by madduci »

matteason wrote: post #10

Context: last year LaLiga (top-level Spanish football league) obtained a court order compelling Spanish ISPs to block certain IPs during football matches, as those IPs have been associated with illegal streams of live matches. Many of those IPs are shared Cloudflare IPs, with the result being many legitimate sites become unavailable in Spain during LaLiga matches https://cybernews.com/news/spain-laliga-streaming-pira…

In Italy, Serie A got the approval of Government to do so, which is even worse
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