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In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

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Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#141
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Truckers were using lower manhattan as a cut-through route to other places Popular truck route from Queens->Bronx was 59th st bridge, left onto 2nd then immediate left onto 59th, and another left onto 1st and take 1st all the way to Willis Ave bridge to beat the RFK bridge (formerly the Triborough) tolls.

[flagged]

This is a totally normal and sane response.

Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#142
post #2

> Particulates issued from tailpipes can aggravate asthma and heart disease and increase the risk of lung cancer and heart attack. Globally, they are a leading risk factor for premature death. Minor nitpick, but tailpipes aren't the primary source of emissions. The study is about PM2.5[0]. which will chiefly be tires and brake pads. Modern gasoline engines are relatively clean, outside of CO2, though diesel engines s…

> though diesel engines spit out a bunch of bad stuff. Exactly. The noxious tailpipe emissions in a city are usually from diesel trucks, small vehicles like motorcycles (small or absent catalytic converters), modified vehicles (catalytic converter removed or diesel reprogrammed to smoke), but not modern gasoline ICE vehicles. The love for diesel engines in many European countries was always confusing to me. PM2.5 is…

Diesel looks good if you are focusing primarily on fuel economy (mpg / L/100km), and when companies cheat the tests on other emissions:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal

When you remove the cheating and give adequate weight to those emissions, diesel for passenger vehicles makes a lot less sense.

Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#144
post #2

> Particulates issued from tailpipes can aggravate asthma and heart disease and increase the risk of lung cancer and heart attack. Globally, they are a leading risk factor for premature death. Minor nitpick, but tailpipes aren't the primary source of emissions. The study is about PM2.5[0]. which will chiefly be tires and brake pads. Modern gasoline engines are relatively clean, outside of CO2, though diesel engines s…

"relatively clean" means 85% of PM2.5 is from non-exhaust sources, and 15% is from exhaust after catalytic conversion. In New York EV and ICE are pretty much on par when it comes to this category of pollution, as the additional weight increases non exhaust sources. Source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S13522...

It is different in Africa, where catalytic converters are harvested for precious metals and cars are driven without them.

Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#145
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yes let’s think of the poor people who have no choice but to drive into Midtown and downtown for work. Have you ever talked to poor people in NYC?

"poor" is relative. Ever thought about this? Should i said poorer people who still need a car to drive in NYC to make it more understandable to the hn crowed Oo?!

Who needs a car in NYC? It's an expensive hobby and its time we stop letting drivers externalize their costs.

Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Fewer cars in general is the win from congestion pricing, though. And lower VMTs (vehicle miles traveled) is also a win for the planet, it's probably the best weapon the average person has access to in the fight against climate change. Transit usage begets transit usage; more fares paid to the agency enables better frequencies and more routes, leading to more people opting to take transit instead of driving... In a…

If we're speaking about individual actions, isn't avoiding air travel more effective than any other form of individual vehicle travel choice?

Yes, and the northeast has the best rail transit in the US, which NYC sits right in the middle of.

Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#147
post #50
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

EVs are heavier than equivalent-sized ICE vehicles, but they do enjoy regenerative braking. The answer is to make smaller-sized cars but the auto industry has been pushing the farmer cosplay for decades because the profit margins are a lot higher on a $75k truck or SUV than $30k sedan.

It's a tough area, honestly, and will be until public charging is better. You need a bigger battery to get the range that people need (want?) to be able to reach the next charging station. Realistically, though, most people don't really venture far from home but they don't like the idea that they can't venture far from home without finding a place to charge.

EV charging availability has drastically improved over the last few years, so maybe there is hope for smaller EVs.

Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NYC has 8M people and 2M cars. Manhattan has like a 22% car ownership rate, and it's… not the poor people. https://www.hunterurban.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/Car-L... A parking spot will cost you more than rent in some other cities.

This doesn't change my argument at all. The more money you have, more you benefit from this ruling. Now you can buy a service which was not possible before.

> more money you have, more you benefit from this ruling

This is nonsense.

The poor of New York benefit from congestion pricing. It means more funding for the public transit they predominantly take. And for the minority who drive for a living it increases their revenues.

The opposition to congestion charges comes from principally outside New York, often from folks who have little to no familiarity with it.

Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#149
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question becomes how critical is X and is there a close alternative. In this case I'd say for 95% of people yes driving is easily substituted by NYC's public transit options.

For many people, the thing being substituted for an alternative is not "transportation into Manhattan", but more broadly "engaging in commerce in Manhattan"

If you're engaging in commerce, those few bucks are negligible..

Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#150
post #2

> Particulates issued from tailpipes can aggravate asthma and heart disease and increase the risk of lung cancer and heart attack. Globally, they are a leading risk factor for premature death. Minor nitpick, but tailpipes aren't the primary source of emissions. The study is about PM2.5[0]. which will chiefly be tires and brake pads. Modern gasoline engines are relatively clean, outside of CO2, though diesel engines s…

It's true that brake dust is the primary PM2.5 emission from vehicles in an urban environment. However the PM2.5 component from tail pipes are still very significant, higher than the contribution from tires.

The order is:

1. brake dust 2. road dust 3. engine emissions 4. tire dust

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00456...

https://electrek.co/2025/05/27/another-way-electric-cars-cle...

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