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In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

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Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#111

Post by aoeusnth1 »

jpfromlondon wrote: post #29
bitwize wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pigovian taxes WORK, and are in many cases desirable, something lolberts just seem unable to get their heads around.

Pigouvian*, this is a regressive tax though that is probably unnecessary as the other studies referenced or linked in this thread show.

Regressive taxes aren't bad inherently bad. Regressive spending is bad.

In this case, you have a regressive tax with a huge positive side effect due to taxing an externality. If the funds are also spread into progressive services it can be a net positive for all income brackets.

Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#112

Post by Aurornis »

ceejayoz wrote: post #106
entropicdrifter wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While this is generally true, tire wear is known to be generally faster on EVs due to their weight and instantaneous torque when accelerating. Which, as an EV owner, feels like an "oh no, my steak is too buttery" kind of problem to have.

The instant torque also comes with better control over it, though. I don't doubt it's a thing, but I do doubt it outweighs all the other environmental benefits.

It’s the forces that accelerate the wear. Significant wheel speed is a rare occurrence in normal driving, but acceleration, cornering, and braking forces are ever present.

Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#113

Post by MLgulabio »

ceejayoz wrote: post #85
MLgulabio wrote: post #81

[flagged]

NYC has 8M people and 2M cars. Manhattan has like a 22% car ownership rate, and it's… not the poor people. https://www.hunterurban.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/Car-L... A parking spot will cost you more than rent in some other cities.

This doesn't change my argument at all.

The more money you have, more you benefit from this ruling. Now you can buy a service which was not possible before.

Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#114

Post by ceejayoz »

MLgulabio wrote: post #104
tantalor wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Concern trolling.

Whats concern trolling? This mechanism allows people with more money to enjoy driving in the city or is this congestion prcing based on your salary? no its not its based on the time in the city independent of what you make. A person with their high end car and miillions now can buy himself a nice little drive into the city while everyone else can't.

> A person with their high end car and miillions now can buy himself a nice little drive into the city while everyone else can't.

This was already the case in NYC without congestion fees. (For example: https://nypost.com/2025/07/12/us-news/park-slope-parking-spo...)

Now they get to fund public transit a little bit while they do so.

Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#116

Post by Spivak »

Angostura wrote: post #12
jgeada wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does everyone immediately pivot to EVs on this subject, instead of (looks around) gargantuan SUVs and trucks everywhere, due to peculiarities of US policies regulating SUVs more leniently than cars on fuel efficiency?

Because a lot if EV buyers are interested in the environmental impact of their purchase?

I say this as someone who owns an electric scooter and whose next car will be an EV—the sales pitch for EVs right now is basically pay more (especially now that the tax credit is gone) to have a worse time and maybe eventually claw some of it back over the lifetime of the car in fuel savings. The environmental impact is the pro in the pro con list. So if that doesn't pan out, or doesn't pan out enough it's going to be a tough sell.

Just the cost to get my garage outfitted with a charging port is about to be in the thousands because it requires me to replace the entire breaker panel. Now this is a me problem because that panel is ancient but it does add to the total cost of "doing this" and going EV.

Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#117

Post by PaulHoule »

looknee wrote: post #45
unreal6 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Chevy Suburban: ~ 5,700–6,100lbs Model 3: ~ 3,860–3,900+ lbs Suburban is about 1.5–1.6× heavier than a Tesla Model 3.

The Chevy Suburban has been one of the largest vehicles on the market since 1934. [1]

If you wanted an EV to match the Suburban it would probably be that Cadillac Escalade IQ in terms of size, comfort, and towing capacity -- that's got a curb weight of 9,100 pounds which is 1.5x heavier than the Suburban.

I'd think the BMW 3 Series has a similar vibe to the Model 3 and that has a base curb weight of 3536 which is about 10% less than the Model 3.

[1] it's the oldest nameplate that's been made continuously

Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#118

Post by nonethewiser »

nabla9 wrote: post #69
biophysboy wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that true for slower moving vehicles? I can't imagine there's a lot of brake dust generated by stopping & starting in the 0-10 mph range.

Tires and brakes. With EV's this gets relatively worse because they are heavier.

Whoops

Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#119

Post by nonethewiser »

jgeada wrote: post #9
throwawaypath wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do EVs fare in this regard? Brakes are used significantly less, but the additional weight from the batteries chews through tires faster.

Why does everyone immediately pivot to EVs on this subject, instead of (looks around) gargantuan SUVs and trucks everywhere, due to peculiarities of US policies regulating SUVs more leniently than cars on fuel efficiency?

Because EVs are the proposed solution

Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#120

Post by tengbretson »

rtkwe wrote: post #19
nalnq wrote: post #8

[flagged]

The question becomes how critical is X and is there a close alternative. In this case I'd say for 95% of people yes driving is easily substituted by NYC's public transit options.

For many people, the thing being substituted for an alternative is not "transportation into Manhattan", but more broadly "engaging in commerce in Manhattan"
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