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Canadian bill would strip internet access from 'specified persons', no warrant

nationalpost.com

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Re: Canadian bill would strip internet access from 'specified persons', no warrant

#141

Post by gpm »

opengrass wrote: post #135
gpm wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This bill, which is almost entirely about giving the government the ability to restrict where ISPs purchase services from (e.g. routers) despite what the national post would have you believe, probably isn't corrupt at all, it's just a matter of national security to not give groups like China the ability to take down our internet. That said it certainly could enable corruption. "Pay us (the cabinet ministers) some mon…

Huawei gear has been banned no problem. It would not be that terribly worded.

Huawei gear has not been banned, unfortunately. There's been some progress in removing it, but ultimately the telecoms have refused to do so fully. Laws to get this done were in the process of being passed, but not passed, when the Trudeau government fell.

Here's a source from not that long ago: https://mobilesyrup.com/2025/01/14/telcos-slow-removal-huawe...

Re: Canadian bill would strip internet access from 'specified persons', no warrant

#142

Post by txrx0000 »

gpm wrote: post #128
txrx0000 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure there are already laws that allow the government to deal with devices used for spying. There's no need to introduce this broad-spectrum bill that controls way more than it should. You may have charitable interpretations, but 15.2(2)(d) can be used to effectively ban anyone from accessing the Internet. And it can certainly be used to throttle web services the government doesn't like.

I don't have more charitable interpretations, I have more correct interpretations. The cannons of statutory interpretation are not a matter of charity, they are a matter of how laws are read. 15.2(2)(d) cannot as a matter of law be used to effectively ban anyone from the internet at all. I do not believe the government currently has the authority to force telecoms to remove suspected compromised equipment. They've tr…

> 15.2(2)(d) cannot as a matter of law be used to effectively ban anyone from the internet at all.

How laws are read can change. It may not fly in court today, but what about 5 or 10 years later? They may not immediately ban anyone, but just slightly throttling the services they don't like with national security as an excuse is detrimental to the free Internet. People will get used to it and then one day, it would be interpreted as "it's ok to allow egregious usage limits", which is effectively a ban. It happens gradually.

> I do not believe the government currently has the authority to force telecoms to remove suspected compromised equipment.

Good. This is the way it should be. The burden of proof is on the government. You cannot assume guilty until proven innocent. If the government really suspects that there is some malicious equipment that slipped past their equivalent of FCC undetected, then they could impose import restrictions to make it impractical for telecom operators to purchase said equipment.

There is a lot they could do on the import regulation side, such as restricting OTA updates for critical equipment to domestic servers, or even restrict firmware updates to offline flashing only. They could make some equipment prohibitively expensive. There are plenty of ways to deal with it besides introducing a law like this.

Re: Canadian bill would strip internet access from 'specified persons', no warrant

#143

Post by nick__m »

andy99 wrote: post #98
nick__m wrote: post #29

I tought that the National Post was exaggerating the severity in their crusade against the Liberal like they frequently do. So I when to read the law and it's as bad as they say: https://www.parl.ca/DocumentViewer/en/45-1/bill/C-8/first-re... ... Factor Before making the order, the Governor in Council must consider (a) its operational impact on the affected telecommunications service providers; (b) its financial impa…

[flagged]

The Globe and Mail is a reputable and respectable publication but The National Post is an American-owned right wing propaganda paper. I won't apologize for calling them as I see them.

Re: Canadian bill would strip internet access from 'specified persons', no warrant

#144

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

gpm wrote: post #71
nick__m wrote: post #29

I tought that the National Post was exaggerating the severity in their crusade against the Liberal like they frequently do. So I when to read the law and it's as bad as they say: https://www.parl.ca/DocumentViewer/en/45-1/bill/C-8/first-re... ... Factor Before making the order, the Governor in Council must consider (a) its operational impact on the affected telecommunications service providers; (b) its financial impa…

[flagged]

Certainly don’t give your clicks to an outlet you consider conservative to find out that the liberals you ideologically side with have written a bill so the headline remains entirely justified.

Re: Canadian bill would strip internet access from 'specified persons', no warrant

#145

Post by IG_Semmelweiss »

gilbetron wrote: post #95
billy99k wrote: post #81

[flagged]

Unbelievable how someone on this forum can blame "the left" when the US has an administration that is clearly the greatest threat to the 1st amendment, really all of them, the country has probably ever seen.

A leftist promotes healthy debate, in an open forum, handing far-right advocates the microphone.

Then that leftist is killed by a far-right assassin.

Wake me up when that happens. Pigs might just fly.

Re: Canadian bill would strip internet access from 'specified persons', no warrant

#147

Post by mitthrowaway2 »

gpm wrote: post #86
dustbunny wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

National post is a respectable publication more akin to the Wall Street Journal. Canadian Breitbart is probably more like rebel news or epoch times.

At best you could compare them to fox news, but they don't compare favourably even to that. They are admittedly maybe not quite as bad as Breitbart but it's close enough in my opinion.

NP definitely does not approach objectivity or hide its editorial partisanship, but they're very far from Fox News.

Re: Canadian bill would strip internet access from 'specified persons', no warrant

#149

Post by gpm »

txrx0000 wrote: post #142
gpm wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have more charitable interpretations, I have more correct interpretations. The cannons of statutory interpretation are not a matter of charity, they are a matter of how laws are read. 15.2(2)(d) cannot as a matter of law be used to effectively ban anyone from the internet at all. I do not believe the government currently has the authority to force telecoms to remove suspected compromised equipment. They've tr…

> 15.2(2)(d) cannot as a matter of law be used to effectively ban anyone from the internet at all. How laws are read can change. It may not fly in court today, but what about 5 or 10 years later? They may not immediately ban anyone, but just slightly throttling the services they don't like with national security as an excuse is detrimental to the free Internet. People will get used to it and then one day, it would be…

> How laws are read can change.

They are more likely to ignore the law than to change the fundamental principles of how the words are read. It's easier. See the US.

Worrying about this sort of lawless action when writing laws is pointless because no matter how well laws are written they don't stop someone from simply ignoring them.

> Good. This is the way it should be.

I have no interest in rolling over and handing the keys to our communications infrasturcture to foreign powers because the government was not fast enough to realize they needed to ban a company, or because foreign politics shifted and what was a safe enough bet not longer is.

It's not a matter of guilt or innocence. It's not a matter of punishment. It's a matter of maintaining our independence.

Re: Canadian bill would strip internet access from 'specified persons', no warrant

#150

Post by jeromegv »

dustbunny wrote: post #84
gpm wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

National post is a respectable publication more akin to the Wall Street Journal. Canadian Breitbart is probably more like rebel news or epoch times.

> National post is a respectable publication more akin to the Wall Street Journal.

Absolutely not, their American owner has cut so much into that newspaper that whatever reputation they had a decade ago is entirely gone. They used to be somewhat of a right leaning equivalent to the Globe and Mail, but this is no longer an equivalent, what comes out of that publication is now extremely poor quality, often entirely false.

This is not anywhere close to the WSJ.

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