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Ontario family doctor says new AI notetaking saved her job

globalnews.ca

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Re: Ontario family doctor says new AI notetaking saved her job

#141

Post by ipython »

technofiend wrote: post #122
tim333 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The HIPPA rules on health data are fairly strict, otherwise your doctor, hospital and so on could already be doing wrong. Personally I have a dumb TV, car, doorbell and fridge so not much spying there. The phone I'm less sure of.

HIPPA rules are easily circumvented unless you as a patient are paying attention: I can't tell you how many forms I've opted out of that wanted to explicitly export my data to third parties and partners that are not HIPPA compliant. And at least for my healthcare providers that use MyCharts, they like to make it part of the echeckin workflow, with no option to refuse. So you're forced to go up to the desk to check in…

100% this. I just visited an urgent care center yesterday for some strep tests. I was given an electronic signature pad and told to sign for "consent to care". No documentation was given to me on what I was signing - just that I needed to sign.

I had to ask for a paper copy of the form I was signing, which was handed to me. That document said that "I acknowledge receiving the privacy notice ..." Was that given to me? Of course not. Asking for that - well let's just say I think I was the first person to ever ask for any of this documentation. I'm sure my information has been shared with 30 other entities - for a strep test. It's insane and unenforceable as a patient who just wants to get shit done.

Re: Ontario family doctor says new AI notetaking saved her job

#142

Post by userabchn »

theptip wrote: post #114

This could be the thing that saves the US healthcare system; currently we pay 2x what a normal developed country would pay for the level of service provided, because there is a thick layer of paperwork, with insurance companies going back-and-forth with medical providers to debate and negotiate billing. Imagine if AIs on each side could run that negotiation process in seconds, at the cost of merely a few hundred thou…

I don't think it is for the same level of service provided. I have read that there are three substantial differences between medical care in the USA and in other countries: 1. More single-patient rooms 2. More surgical procedures performed in the final year of life 3. More obesity and that the difference in the percentage of GDP spent on healthcare can at least partially be explained by these.

Re: Ontario family doctor says new AI notetaking saved her job

#144

Post by andsens »

technofiend wrote: post #122
tim333 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The HIPPA rules on health data are fairly strict, otherwise your doctor, hospital and so on could already be doing wrong. Personally I have a dumb TV, car, doorbell and fridge so not much spying there. The phone I'm less sure of.

HIPPA rules are easily circumvented unless you as a patient are paying attention: I can't tell you how many forms I've opted out of that wanted to explicitly export my data to third parties and partners that are not HIPPA compliant. And at least for my healthcare providers that use MyCharts, they like to make it part of the echeckin workflow, with no option to refuse. So you're forced to go up to the desk to check in…

The fact that it is even legal to ask patients to sign away their right to privacy boggles the mind.

Re: Ontario family doctor says new AI notetaking saved her job

#145

Post by robrenaud »

IG_Semmelweiss wrote: post #132
karencarits wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The EMR, and therefore most note-taking, is not as value add to the patient, or doctor. Its just the only way the doctor will be paid. I don't think this is true as proper note-taking and documentation is required by law in many countries where the doctor is not paid per patient/procedure

OK, but you need to clarify your statement. As you said, >>> note taking and documentation is required by law. So then, the EMR not a value add, which is also what I wrote. It just so happens that in the US the primary reason is to get paid, and its also why some doctors still eke out a living without an EMR (but still with some kind of paper medical files)

Do EMRs improve the standard of care?

Re: Ontario family doctor says new AI notetaking saved her job

#146

Post by loceng »

forgetfreeman wrote: post #102
xyst wrote: post #92

As a person that used to be a “human scribe” but for emergency dept doctors. I would say the ER doctors shared the same experience as the one depicted in the news story. For a doctor that was nearing the age of retirement or had very poor keyboard proficiency. scribes were a godsend. Doctors worried less about documentation and focused more on patient care. Of course they still wrote things like admission orders, pre…

Yeah but you can't get that genie back in the bottle. Once these data are made available to private industry it's only a matter of lobbyists chipping away at whatever protections were initially legislated. See Also: your TV, phone, car, fucking doorbell, and fridge are all spying on you.

Well, the reality is likely once they get access to the data, are allowed to use it - they will likely be happy to be grandfathered into their accelerated position if legislation passes to create barriers of entry by preventing such mass data gather/access without express permission - to have an advantage on competition; but generally this won't be a winning tactic in the end because trust is the most important factor, even if consumers aren't driven by that yet as their primary driver.

Re: Ontario family doctor says new AI notetaking saved her job

#147

Post by hollerith »

andsens wrote: post #144
technofiend wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HIPPA rules are easily circumvented unless you as a patient are paying attention: I can't tell you how many forms I've opted out of that wanted to explicitly export my data to third parties and partners that are not HIPPA compliant. And at least for my healthcare providers that use MyCharts, they like to make it part of the echeckin workflow, with no option to refuse. So you're forced to go up to the desk to check in…

The fact that it is even legal to ask patients to sign away their right to privacy boggles the mind.

There are already too many restrictive law and rules in the US around healthcare, and here you want to add another restriction.

Re: Ontario family doctor says new AI notetaking saved her job

#148

Post by b112 »

chollida1 wrote: post #138
b112 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But not far down the road they'll become much better than humans While I think you're correct, there is no proof this will ever be achieved. It very well may not be possible along our current path. It may take a 100 years, 1000 to get there. And yes it could take only 20 more. But to state this as a certainty? No.

I think its basic certainty that computers will be better at transcribing notes than humans basically now and will continue to get better. I mean we're basically there now, I trust spell check and grammar check more than myself. That's what we're talking about here. IMHO computers are already better at that, what possibly makes you think this won't happen?

My reply was to the parent post, which started:

This seems very similar to self driving cars.

And continued discussing self driving cars.

Regardless, what I said stands.

Re: Ontario family doctor says new AI notetaking saved her job

#149

Post by loceng »

karmakaze wrote: post #71

There's no mention of data privacy. Since AI Scribe[0] study is a run by OntarioMD, the digital technology arm of the Ontario Medical Association, it might be okay but it would be nice if it declared it. From the AI Scribe link: > This project is funded by the Ontario Ministry of Health and overseen by Ontario Health. The study is currently underway, with 150 primary care providers already selected from diverse demog…

I honestly don't love taxpayer funding being used - unless the underlying technology is open sourced and available for commercial use, so then the free market can make improvements on it, etc.

Or funding situations like e.g. "we'll pay for you if the doctor/practitioner chooses your software" - but otherwise the free market is efficient, and unelected people administering taxpayer money have no real incentive to not mismanage the money; especially when current governments are money printing devaluing everyone's money, causing a ton of externalized effects literally causing harm to people's health and reducing people's quality of life.

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