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EU aims to shift European arms industry to 'war economy mode'

reuters.com

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Re: EU aims to shift European arms industry to 'war economy mode'

#141

Post by mopsi »

argentier wrote: post #106
tim333 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh BS it's security. Like they are threatened by a small peacefull country next door with a comedian elected as president to join the EU, when they have the largest nuclear arsenal in the world and a dictator skilled in mass murder. >Western historians have calculated that, over the last 400 years of its existence, the Russian Empire expanded at an average rate of 50 square kilometers per day. ( https://www.themoscow…

The Russians were, as they made clear on multiple occasions, threatened by NATO moving into Ukraine and potentially placing missiles close to the Russian heartland.

The only ones installing missiles anywhere are Russians, most recently moving nuclear missiles into an unstable dictatorship in Belarus, right on EU and NATO border.

Re: EU aims to shift European arms industry to 'war economy mode'

#142

Post by mopsi »

argentier wrote: post #90
mopsi wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every link of yours is a well-known spin. For example, Bennett has clarified that his words have been taken out of context and misrepresented, and Arahamiya has said that no-one on Ukrainian side belived that Russian peace plan was genuine and not a stalling tactic. Perhaps it would be a good idea to switch to sites that don't have "conservative" in their URL.

"Clarified" -- yes he walked it back under intense pressure. His words were in a long podcast you can listen to.

No, he said that his words were taken out of context and he never meant the things people like you try to attribute to him.

Re: EU aims to shift European arms industry to 'war economy mode'

#143

Post by 4gotunameagain »

alephnerd wrote: post #10
lifestyleguru wrote: post #7

Too late to buy EU defence stocks, too late to buy real estate, too late to simply stop getting intimate with Russia (are Germans still smirking?), with current economy nobody is getting a new job either. What have you done, Europe.

> What have you done, Europe Making crass jokes about school shootings, alienating regional powers (Israel, Turkey, Australia, most of the Sahel), and ignoring the first conventional war on the continent this century.

Turkey and Israel alienated themselves. There was way too much will towards Turkey, and they kept blowing it every single time. And Israel.. well.. is Israel.

Re: EU aims to shift European arms industry to 'war economy mode'

#144

Post by boffinAudio »

kuratkull wrote: post #89
argentier wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Russian deals don't look like what reasonable people think they should look like. They are only ever made to serve propaganda needs, you have fallen for it.

Who are you to say what a "real" Russian deal is? Are you a Russian citizen?

If no: then you can do NOTHING effective about Russia.

Reign your own war criminals in and bring them to heel. Only after you have done that, are you going to be in a position to do anything effective about Russia - if, indeed, the "Russian threat" boogeyman still persists, long after you've actually sent your own war criminals to rot in chains in The Hague .. which is, admittedly, quite unlikely given that the very same war criminals you would have to confront and prosecute are the ones telling you boogeyman stories ..

Re: EU aims to shift European arms industry to 'war economy mode'

#145

Post by boffinAudio »

Wytwwww wrote: post #123
argentier wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's about Russian security, not Putin's vanity. Please try to raise the level of discourse beyond the boogyman propaganda so beloved of Hollywood. This is serious, deadly serious, and seeing it treated so lightly is painful.

> It's about Russian security It's not 1939 (as if their invasion of Poland was justifiable or is that not what you're claiming?). Nobody has been threatening Russian security for decades. Even back in the cold war does there were no serious plans to invade Russia itself. > Please try to raise the level of discourse beyond the boogyman That's sounds rather absurd... You're the one who's using propaganda bullet points…

[flagged]

Re: EU aims to shift European arms industry to 'war economy mode'

#146

Post by boffinAudio »

Wytwwww wrote: post #125
argentier wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Russians were, as they made clear on multiple occasions, threatened by NATO moving into Ukraine and potentially placing missiles close to the Russian heartland.

Why would NATO want to antagonize or threaten Russia directly? That's a serious question because neither the US nor Western Europe had any desire to start any direct or indirect conflict with Russia since 1991.. > missiles close to the Russian heartland. Any factual evidence? In any case you do realize there are Russian missiles in Kaliningrad so following the same logic you would agree that Poland/Germany/Sweden etc…

>Why would NATO want to antagonize or threaten Russia directly?

Because the PNAC/CNAC plans for the economic survival of the USA and its western allies depends on the defeat of Russia and the balkanization of its resources?

Haven't you been paying attention? The PNAC/CNAC oligarchs and their military junta have made it quite clear for decades that they want what Russia's got...

Re: EU aims to shift European arms industry to 'war economy mode'

#147

Post by boffinAudio »

tim333 wrote: post #117
armitron wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you aware of the Monroe doctrine? Cuban missile crisis? Can you imagine the US reaction if Russia placed missiles in Canada or Mexico? Mearsheimer explains the perceived threat aspect very well: it doesn't matter what YOU, the Americans or any outside observer thinks. What does matter is what the Russians think, and they've made their thinking on having Ukraine be part of NATO very clear.

Russia has bordered two NATO counties for decades. There were no Russia threatening missiles in Ukraine. Putin is probably genuinely threatened by the prospect of Ukraine being a prosperous democracy and his own people saying why do we have to live under tyrany then, but that's a different thing.

No, Putin is actually bothered by the presence of NATO bases designed to attack and invade Russia being established directly on his borders, within minutes of flight time to Moscow. He also had huge issues with Ukraines' NATO-funded biological warfare program.

Haven't you been paying attention?

Re: EU aims to shift European arms industry to 'war economy mode'

#148

Post by boffinAudio »

Wytwwww wrote: post #128
argentier wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatever he arrived with, it changed the plans of the Ukrainian government. I don't see how it removes any agency from Ukraine, or why that would even be a meaningful statement.

> Whatever he arrived with, it changed the plans of the Ukrainian government So you're claiming that Ukrainian government was willing to give up all the annexed regions including the territories they still controlled? Because that's what Russia was demanding. Do you have any evidence to back your claims?

https://www.intellinews.com/top-ukrainian-politician-oleksiy...

Re: EU aims to shift European arms industry to 'war economy mode'

#149

Post by type0 »

tim333 wrote: post #138
type0 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's a bit more nuanced: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finlandization

Also of course the USSR did invade Finland but got stopped before they could take that much territory, maybe a bit like what will happen in Ukraine.

Not at all like in Ukraine, winter war ended because ww2 started, though you could also see it as the beginning of the same war

Re: EU aims to shift European arms industry to 'war economy mode'

#150

Post by dsq »

TillE wrote: post #4

There was an incredibly stubborn post-Cold War "end of history" complacency in Europe that really should have ended after the annexation of Crimea in 2014. Instead it lasted until the full invasion in 2022. What's been starkly revealed since is that Europe is woefully unprepared to respond to any kind of aggression, and aside from France's nuclear weapons, wholly reliant on America. At some point you have to get seri…

Losing the UK's Royal Navy, special forces, and nuke force due to Brexit was also a strategic mistake, due to peacetime conplacency. It would have made more sense to be a bit more flexible with Britain.
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