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Ancient Carthaginians did sacrifice their children (2014)

ox.ac.uk

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Re: Ancient Carthaginians did sacrifice their children (2014)

#141

Post by apocalypstyx »

atlantic wrote: post #128
vintermann wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you do understand why "our ancestors practiced child sacrifice" is controversial when you think about it

[flagged]

> Interestingly, child sacrifice is still with us, in the form of state-sanctioned castration. Plus ça change...

This isn't happening.

Intersex children being force-ably sexually re-assigned, that was a thing we did for a long time and which has only barely slowed in recent times. The only sexual modification of children going on is the regularization of the body.

Re: Ancient Carthaginians did sacrifice their children (2014)

#142

Post by apocalypstyx »

jonathanlb wrote: post #139
atlantic wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I'm drawing a blank here, but what do you mean "state-sanctioned castration"? Do you have examples? The only thing I can think of is the chemical castration that is done to sex offenders or to treat cancer, but for the most part, this is done to adults, and not children. Or are you referring to something else that would affect children of both sexes?

They are disingenuously referencing trans affirmative care.

Re: Ancient Carthaginians did sacrifice their children (2014)

#144

Post by janandonly »

goda90 wrote: post #117

I want to make a plug for the Fall of Civilizations podcast. Last month was the Carthage episode. Here's the audio version(video version hasn't been released yet): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mqX9twdyYo

I love that podcast. Too bad there are only a few episodes, but I get it, if you make everything yourself, you can only be this fast.

Re: Ancient Carthaginians did sacrifice their children (2014)

#145

Post by Eumenes »

dumpsterdiver wrote: post #11

[flagged]

Perhaps they knew something we didn't know. I'm convinced human sacrifice is more than just, lets appease this deity or usher in a form of eugenics/genocide. These people were far more advanced then we give them credit for.

Re: Ancient Carthaginians did sacrifice their children (2014)

#146

Post by f154hfds »

scns wrote: post #19
oofnik wrote: post #7

Child sacrifice hooks into some very deep and dark aspects of human psychology that we have yet to unpack. There is a reason that this practice crops up in various civilizations seemingly independently, and it is not a pretty one - at least not by contemporary moral sensibilities. It is impossible to understand the biblical narrative of the binding of Isaac, for example, without addressing the context in which such a…

> It is impossible to understand the biblical narrative of the binding of Isaac Huh? It is quite easy to understand for me. Abraham and Sarah were childless and Sarah was infertile/too old DRC. Abraham prayed for an heir and miraculously Sarah gives life to Isaac. Yahwe demands Abraham to sacrifice Isaac, the most precious "thing" he has, to test his belief. Since Abraham does as he is told, a angel stops him from ki…

The story is much deeper than you give it credit:

1. God promises Abraham that his descendants will be numerous as 'stars in the sky'

2. Abraham and Sarah have 1 kid in their old age: Isaac, the only chance for God to fulfill the promise

3. God tells Abraham to sacrifice Isaac, his compliance indicates his faith in God's promise (that it can happen outside of his control, and beyond his knowledge)

4. God stops it and provides a 'ram in the thicket' as substitute, note the sacrifice still occurs.

5. Sacrifice is required to save the Israelites in Egypt from the angel of death, Passover begins.

6. We see a whole system and culture of sacrifices instituted in the tabernacle and later the temple as a method of 'atonement'

7. Jesus presents himself as the ultimate atonement or 'propitiation', closing the circle

Essentially in the Bible sacrifice is integral to the entire story, beginning to end. In some ways the story of the sacrifice of Isaac is a peek into the nature of justice and how in the Biblical God's conception of justice wrongdoing must be paid for by blood, just not necessarily the blood of the perpetrator themselves. All members of Israel are responsible for providing their sacrifices indicating that no one is free from guilt providing the backdrop for Christianity's pessimistic take on the nature of Man.

Re: Ancient Carthaginians did sacrifice their children (2014)

#147

Post by janandonly »

atlantic wrote: post #128
vintermann wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you do understand why "our ancestors practiced child sacrifice" is controversial when you think about it

[flagged]

Castration? That is a spelling error, I guess? Maybe you meant to say abortion?

Re: Ancient Carthaginians did sacrifice their children (2014)

#148

Post by handsaway »

jonathanlb wrote: post #139
atlantic wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I'm drawing a blank here, but what do you mean "state-sanctioned castration"? Do you have examples? The only thing I can think of is the chemical castration that is done to sex offenders or to treat cancer, but for the most part, this is done to adults, and not children. Or are you referring to something else that would affect children of both sexes?

As the other poster mentioned they're referencing treatment of trans children.

They are also factually incorrect as surgical intervention is not and has never been part of the recommended treatment for children. As such their intentions are either misinformed or malicious.

Re: Ancient Carthaginians did sacrifice their children (2014)

#149

Post by getmeinrn »

amelius wrote: post #143

Which is more likely: ancient people sacificing their children, or ancient writers wanting to mess with future historians or simply writing horror?

They mention it was documented by the Greeks & Romans, but was dismissed at the time as politically motivated slander. Those records plus physical evidence give it more weight, so I say the former is more likely.

Re: Ancient Carthaginians did sacrifice their children (2014)

#150

Post by Eumenes »

aaomidi wrote: post #111
dumpsterdiver wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It leaves a bad taste in my mouth bringing it back around to politics (I wish I lived in a world where I didn't have anything to say about it), but cancel culture has shown that people still love to gather 'round for a good old fashioned sacrifice.

We sacrifice millions every year because we 1. Don’t want to change our reliance on cars 2. Don’t want to address hunger and houselessness. 3. We are doing basically nothing about global warming. A lot of countries COVID strategy was effectively human sacrifice too. This practice never ended.

Homeboy just compared human sacrifice to [current social justice talking points]. Most who died of covid were overweight, old, and had preexisting medical conditions related to lifestyle. They contributed to their own "sacrifice".
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