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The Wait Until 8th pledge

waituntil8th.org

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Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#141

Post by cmeacham98 »

Literally none of the evidence on the website's own "Why" page supports their suggestion: https://www.waituntil8th.org/why-wait

All of the studies (bonus points for linking to news articles instead of directly to the studies) have something to do with "time spent using screens/a phone/social media", but nothing to do with age of first use.

How can anyone trust this website has any basis in reality when they wrote a whole page explaining why and none of it was applicable?

Of course parents should regulate how much time their kids spend on electronics (similar to how parents of previous generations would prevent kids from watching TV 5 hours a day) - but there seems to be little to no evidence to suggest that giving a kid a smartphone in 8th grade rather than 5th grade would make a meaningful difference.

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#142

Post by akira2501 »

npunt wrote: post #105
elzbardico wrote: post #72

This is the easy way out of the problem, but I am afraid, not the correct one. My kid has had his own tablet since 6, his own PC since 8, and his own cellular since 9. So far he hasn't turned into a domestic terrorist, and neither is he selling heroin for crypto on the dark web. Also, he has specific times when he can use his devices аnd limits on how much time. All modern OSes have some sort of parental controls bui…

That's cool you, a tech-savvy HN poster, has managed to wield technology to find a high-reward/low-risk way to parent using devices, but perhaps your 'correct' solution may not work in all contexts for all people. Perhaps you just have a kid who has the right temperament to handle devices when young. Perhaps you work few enough hours or have the resources necessary to parent in a way to make this work. Perhaps the ki…

> Perhaps you work few enough hours or have the resources necessary to parent in a way to make this work.

This is a rational statement. That we live in a world where this /can/ be a rational statement is troubling.

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#143

Post by autoexec »

pantalaimon wrote: post #137
DoreenMichele wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can be less safe in part because there are fewer eyes on the street. If everyone has a lot of kids and a lot of those kids are outside together playing stick ball or whatever, it's much less likely one of them will be molested, kidnapped, etc.

The greater danger is them being run over by cars

I do think that if kids returned to playing outdoors there would probably be an adjustment period where people had to learn to expect kids running around and into streets. To hear adult bike-riders talk about how poorly people watch out for them asking people to put their phones down while driving and watch for kids might be a big adjustment.

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#144

Post by watwut »

411111111111111 wrote: post #135
elzbardico wrote: post #72

This is the easy way out of the problem, but I am afraid, not the correct one. My kid has had his own tablet since 6, his own PC since 8, and his own cellular since 9. So far he hasn't turned into a domestic terrorist, and neither is he selling heroin for crypto on the dark web. Also, he has specific times when he can use his devices аnd limits on how much time. All modern OSes have some sort of parental controls bui…

> We are supposed to parent. Part of the parenting stuff means supervising and guiding in all environments your kid has contact with, including screens. That's your interpretation of the parenting role. It might be agreeable for a lot of people on this forum, but that's mostly because we're all a self selected group. Historically speaking, children were free to learn unguided and parents only interfered if the kids d…

> Historically speaking, children were free to learn unguided and parents only interfered if the kids didn't do their jobs, which was literal work on a farm or similar.

First of all, we have lower levels of child criminality, violence, alcoholism, you name it then they had back in periods you are trying to reference.

Second of all, this is not even historical. Historical parents cared about values they children grow in. They cared about what kind of people they will be. And the classes who could afford education and supervision, did paid those money. It could actually get quite controlling.

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#146

Post by watwut »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #97

Playing outdoors, spending time with friends, reading books and hanging out with family is happening a lot less to make room for hours of snap chatting, instagramming, and catching up on You Tube. I'm pretty sure cause and effect run the other way. The world has changed in a lot of ways and the internet gives people a constructive outlet to fill the void. Average number of children per household has dropped steadily…

> There are knock on effects from there that help make it less safe to play outdoors in a lot of places, family less available, etc.

It is perfectly safe to play outdoors, except for cars. Siblings, aunts, uncles and cousins has literally zero to do with safety outside.

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#147

Post by myrryr »

npunt wrote: post #105
elzbardico wrote: post #72

This is the easy way out of the problem, but I am afraid, not the correct one. My kid has had his own tablet since 6, his own PC since 8, and his own cellular since 9. So far he hasn't turned into a domestic terrorist, and neither is he selling heroin for crypto on the dark web. Also, he has specific times when he can use his devices аnd limits on how much time. All modern OSes have some sort of parental controls bui…

That's cool you, a tech-savvy HN poster, has managed to wield technology to find a high-reward/low-risk way to parent using devices, but perhaps your 'correct' solution may not work in all contexts for all people. Perhaps you just have a kid who has the right temperament to handle devices when young. Perhaps you work few enough hours or have the resources necessary to parent in a way to make this work. Perhaps the ki…

> If there's any truism to parenting (and education) its that there's no one size fits all solution

So a pledge to try to enforce a one size fits all solution is dumb as hell yes?

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#148

Post by jhanschoo »

gnicholas wrote: post #90
elzbardico wrote: post #72

This is the easy way out of the problem, but I am afraid, not the correct one. My kid has had his own tablet since 6, his own PC since 8, and his own cellular since 9. So far he hasn't turned into a domestic terrorist, and neither is he selling heroin for crypto on the dark web. Also, he has specific times when he can use his devices аnd limits on how much time. All modern OSes have some sort of parental controls bui…

> So far he hasn't turned into a domestic terrorist, and neither is he selling heroin for crypto on the dark web. Also, he has specific times when he can use his devices аnd limits on how much time. I think this sort of hyperbole is unhelpful. What people are worried about is more mundane: whether the hyperconnectedness will make their kids less happy in the short or long run. There is some evidence that the age of f…

To add a data point regarding early access to internet, I know of a <14yo kid who was learning digital art from yt, using iPad apps to draw, and sharing them on fora, and finding community online when they felt unable to connect with their peers in school. There were negatives to that experience too, and it could have turned out much worse. But completely prohibiting mobile usage is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#149

Post by myrryr »

devjab wrote: post #82

In Denmark we are on the brink of banning smartphones in schools. Not because we want to but because all the science point toward them being dangerous. I’m personally not on the hardliner side, but I’ve yet to see a single argument as to why children need to have access to a smartphone during class except for cases of accessibility. All of the pro phones in school voices in the debate here are from the tech industry…

> Especially because I assume that you weren’t allowed to read comic books during class.

But we were able to bring them to school.

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#150

Post by jhanschoo »

devjab wrote: post #82

In Denmark we are on the brink of banning smartphones in schools. Not because we want to but because all the science point toward them being dangerous. I’m personally not on the hardliner side, but I’ve yet to see a single argument as to why children need to have access to a smartphone during class except for cases of accessibility. All of the pro phones in school voices in the debate here are from the tech industry…

I'm personally for banning phones in school, and schools should have e.g. tablets with internet access when the classes call for it, and for supervised access outside.

I'm not for what this proposal sets out to do which is to completely eliminate phone access.

That is, I'm in agreement with you.

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