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When “free forever” means “free for the next 4 months”

blog.zulip.com

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Re: When “free forever” means “free for the next 4 months”

#141

Post by barnabee »

alexvoda wrote: post #137
dmn322 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) it's not people, it's a company. They're 2 different things. People have consciences and families. Companies are beholden to shareholders. People can find a different job if their company fails. I don't think we need to be forgiving to companies. They're not forgiving to people. They act on policy. 2) While I admit that I'm guilty of it too, overpromising is pretty destructive. It causes you to have to work harder…

GP post regarding 1 is just a manifestation of the illness in the US of considering companies to be people. You should not have empathy for a company.

This.

No empathy. Companies have no right not to die or be killed. Society doesn’t need to prop up your business model.

Re: When “free forever” means “free for the next 4 months”

#142

Post by prmoustache »

selcuka wrote: post #118
swyx wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you’ve never made a mistake in your future predictions? youve never committed to something you couldnt deliver? i understand the outrage but remember the people on the other side of that screen are just humans too. many things dont turn out the way the initial intention was (im not excusing this specific instance, im just hoping for less vitriol when i someday make some over promising mistake in future). let he who i…

You must have missed this part if you read the article: > But Mattermost is breaking the “free forever” promise made to its customers, and without any acknowledgement or apology. The “free forever” note was quietly removed from Mattermost’s website in the month leading up to the announcement, and is never mentioned in the email Mattermost sent to affected customers. Surely, one can expect better than that from a comp…

One could argue that if you aren't paying, you aren't a customer but a user.

Re: When “free forever” means “free for the next 4 months”

#144

Post by prmoustache »

Sevii wrote: post #103
swyx wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you’ve never made a mistake in your future predictions? youve never committed to something you couldnt deliver? i understand the outrage but remember the people on the other side of that screen are just humans too. many things dont turn out the way the initial intention was (im not excusing this specific instance, im just hoping for less vitriol when i someday make some over promising mistake in future). let he who i…

It should be illegal to offer 'free forever' plans and tiers. No company is actually capable of delivering on that promise. It's not a mistake if its blatantly obvious at the beginning that your company is unlikely to last forever.

On the other hand, there is a saying (at least a french version of it): "Promises only bind those who believe in them."

Re: When “free forever” means “free for the next 4 months”

#145

Post by jstummbillig »

swyx wrote: post #89
pikdum wrote: post #73

If a company gets rid of my free forever plan with them, there is a 0% chance that they're getting any money or positive word of mouth from me in the future. It's incredibly scummy behavior. If you're not willing to actually offer it forever, just call it a free plan instead of lying about it.

you’ve never made a mistake in your future predictions? youve never committed to something you couldnt deliver? i understand the outrage but remember the people on the other side of that screen are just humans too. many things dont turn out the way the initial intention was (im not excusing this specific instance, im just hoping for less vitriol when i someday make some over promising mistake in future). let he who i…

> you’ve never made a mistake in your future predictions? youve never committed to something you couldnt deliver?

I think it's worth noting, what incentives are at play here. It's not a neutral mistake: By claiming "free forever" you are heavily frontloading your adoption/marketing and I have to assume you are not just doing that by accident.

So unless, in the worst case, you are ready to fail your company over keeping the promise, just don't ever claim "forever".

Re: When “free forever” means “free for the next 4 months”

#146

Post by dazc »

selcuka wrote: post #118
swyx wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you’ve never made a mistake in your future predictions? youve never committed to something you couldnt deliver? i understand the outrage but remember the people on the other side of that screen are just humans too. many things dont turn out the way the initial intention was (im not excusing this specific instance, im just hoping for less vitriol when i someday make some over promising mistake in future). let he who i…

You must have missed this part if you read the article: > But Mattermost is breaking the “free forever” promise made to its customers, and without any acknowledgement or apology. The “free forever” note was quietly removed from Mattermost’s website in the month leading up to the announcement, and is never mentioned in the email Mattermost sent to affected customers. Surely, one can expect better than that from a comp…

'Surely, one can expect better than that from a company whose stated principles include “customer obsession” and “earn trust”.'

One should expect better but one should also expect such words to be basically bullshit too.

Re: When “free forever” means “free for the next 4 months”

#148

Post by prmoustache »

masfuerte wrote: post #54
wmf wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your free plan is unreliable good luck converting users to paid though.

I have a tiny VPS that costs less than $2 per month. I run a chat server on it. In seven years it has had no failures and one hour of planned downtime. That's better than any of the major cloud services. Simple stuff is surprisingly reliable.

And if that vpn had been hosted in OVH's Strasbourg datacenter, in 2021 you would have had a huge downtime and possibly total loss of data without a backup in another datacenter.

It is like driving under influence. Many people get away with it most if not all their life. Other die in stupid car crash alongside their pregnant wife mere days after their mariage.

You are lucky until you aren't.

Re: When “free forever” means “free for the next 4 months”

#149

Post by mejutoco »

onion2k wrote: post #134
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forever is such a word that it should never be expected to hold except in some limited scientific and mathematical contexts.

If a company states something is 'forever' or 'unlimited' they should be held to exactly that offer. Companies should not be able to use very appealing language and then just say "but obviously we didn't really mean forever !". Using language with a specific meaning with no intention to actually honor what you're offering is fraud.

Adding truffle products without truffle and water resistant x meters to that list.

Re: When “free forever” means “free for the next 4 months”

#150

Post by usr1106 »

alsobrsp wrote: post #61
newscracker wrote: post #59

This is well written, but it doesn’t really explain how or why Zulip will maintain its free plan forever. However, the existence of this post also makes Zulip committed deeper to not pull the rug on the free plan. Whenever that happens, I’d like to believe that there would be grandfathering for existing users on the free plan (unlike the rug pull that Google attempted with its free GSuite/Workplace offering and decid…

I have been using a free plan for over two years. Zulip is awesome and, in my opinion, way better that slack. I use both on a daily basis.

I agree. If I ever have to leave my current job (which could be soonish, startup and runway you know...) one of the things I'll miss most is the clean messaging experience provided by zulip. Everyone who likes the HN UX should be comfortable with zulip, even if it's quite a bit richer in details.

We run our zulip on a smallish EC2 instance. It's probably less than a Euro/month/employee.

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