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When “free forever” means “free for the next 4 months”

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Re: When “free forever” means “free for the next 4 months”

#131

Post by bryanrasmussen »

nine_k wrote: post #93
swyx wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you’ve never made a mistake in your future predictions? youve never committed to something you couldnt deliver? i understand the outrage but remember the people on the other side of that screen are just humans too. many things dont turn out the way the initial intention was (im not excusing this specific instance, im just hoping for less vitriol when i someday make some over promising mistake in future). let he who i…

"Forever" is such a word which you should nit utter lightly, especially in the context of a service commitment. I see that mistakes are made, and they need to be fixed when they become obvious (usually other people have to fix them than the people who made them). But there's no expectation that making and fixing such a mistake should be free , without impact on reputation and customers' goodwill.

Forever is such a word that it should never be expected to hold except in some limited scientific and mathematical contexts.

Re: When “free forever” means “free for the next 4 months”

#132

Post by dmn322 »

swyx wrote: post #89
pikdum wrote: post #73

If a company gets rid of my free forever plan with them, there is a 0% chance that they're getting any money or positive word of mouth from me in the future. It's incredibly scummy behavior. If you're not willing to actually offer it forever, just call it a free plan instead of lying about it.

you’ve never made a mistake in your future predictions? youve never committed to something you couldnt deliver? i understand the outrage but remember the people on the other side of that screen are just humans too. many things dont turn out the way the initial intention was (im not excusing this specific instance, im just hoping for less vitriol when i someday make some over promising mistake in future). let he who i…

1) it's not people, it's a company. They're 2 different things. People have consciences and families. Companies are beholden to shareholders. People can find a different job if their company fails. I don't think we need to be forgiving to companies. They're not forgiving to people. They act on policy.

2) While I admit that I'm guilty of it too, overpromising is pretty destructive. It causes you to have to work harder and give stuff for free to deliver, but that in turn causes other people to have to do that too. If overpromising is very common, then that would mean the market is artificially lower, which is why you have people scrambling all the time doing quick and dirty fixes for everything and lots of companies with horrible work-life balance. It would probably be good for the industry if overpromising were a shameful taboo and not just a simple slipup.

Re: When “free forever” means “free for the next 4 months”

#133

Post by onion2k »

swyx wrote: post #89
pikdum wrote: post #73

If a company gets rid of my free forever plan with them, there is a 0% chance that they're getting any money or positive word of mouth from me in the future. It's incredibly scummy behavior. If you're not willing to actually offer it forever, just call it a free plan instead of lying about it.

you’ve never made a mistake in your future predictions? youve never committed to something you couldnt deliver? i understand the outrage but remember the people on the other side of that screen are just humans too. many things dont turn out the way the initial intention was (im not excusing this specific instance, im just hoping for less vitriol when i someday make some over promising mistake in future). let he who i…

you’ve never made a mistake in your future predictions?

Sure, but I own my mistakes and accept that it's on me to live with the consequences. When a company axes its "free forever" accounts it's passing the consequences of the mistake on to the users. I contend that is making the outcome of the mistake worse rather than better. I don't see how you can argue it's a good thing that people should just accept.

Re: When “free forever” means “free for the next 4 months”

#134

Post by onion2k »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #131
nine_k wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Forever" is such a word which you should nit utter lightly, especially in the context of a service commitment. I see that mistakes are made, and they need to be fixed when they become obvious (usually other people have to fix them than the people who made them). But there's no expectation that making and fixing such a mistake should be free , without impact on reputation and customers' goodwill.

Forever is such a word that it should never be expected to hold except in some limited scientific and mathematical contexts.

If a company states something is 'forever' or 'unlimited' they should be held to exactly that offer. Companies should not be able to use very appealing language and then just say "but obviously we didn't really mean forever!".

Using language with a specific meaning with no intention to actually honor what you're offering is fraud.

Re: When “free forever” means “free for the next 4 months”

#135

Post by kristopolous »

tiedieconderoga wrote: post #38
kristopolous wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the sentiments but I don't know if that's feasible

Why not, besides the practical impossibility of the current Congress passing such a law? IMHO, it would level the playing field for honest manufacturers and service providers. Sure, it would effectively outlaw many types of ads that we see today, but do you think any of the types of ads that rely on hidden fine print are really all that valuable to our economy or society?

Ok let's take contests. They're void where prohibited and a bunch of other rules apply. Should the odds of winning along with these caveats be stated in the copy?

Let's take guarantees and warranties. There's certainly nuances there. Should all those also be disclosed in the main copy?

Let's take the main thing here. What if they went out of business? Forever never actually means for perpetuity.

All these are obvious? So is the rule to stare everything but the obvious? Who determines that?

There's so many practical details that complicate things here

In fact, much of these things have made their way into the law a long time ago. Maybe you just want to restrict the freedom of how they can display it?

Re: When “free forever” means “free for the next 4 months”

#137

Post by alexvoda »

dmn322 wrote: post #132
swyx wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you’ve never made a mistake in your future predictions? youve never committed to something you couldnt deliver? i understand the outrage but remember the people on the other side of that screen are just humans too. many things dont turn out the way the initial intention was (im not excusing this specific instance, im just hoping for less vitriol when i someday make some over promising mistake in future). let he who i…

1) it's not people, it's a company. They're 2 different things. People have consciences and families. Companies are beholden to shareholders. People can find a different job if their company fails. I don't think we need to be forgiving to companies. They're not forgiving to people. They act on policy. 2) While I admit that I'm guilty of it too, overpromising is pretty destructive. It causes you to have to work harder…

GP post regarding 1 is just a manifestation of the illness in the US of considering companies to be people.

You should not have empathy for a company.

Re: When “free forever” means “free for the next 4 months”

#138

Post by [deleted] »

swyx wrote: post #89
pikdum wrote: post #73

If a company gets rid of my free forever plan with them, there is a 0% chance that they're getting any money or positive word of mouth from me in the future. It's incredibly scummy behavior. If you're not willing to actually offer it forever, just call it a free plan instead of lying about it.

you’ve never made a mistake in your future predictions? youve never committed to something you couldnt deliver? i understand the outrage but remember the people on the other side of that screen are just humans too. many things dont turn out the way the initial intention was (im not excusing this specific instance, im just hoping for less vitriol when i someday make some over promising mistake in future). let he who i…

[deleted]

Re: When “free forever” means “free for the next 4 months”

#139

Post by timeon »

duxup wrote: post #43

Maybe it works to have a free tier and yank the rug out from everyone, and maybe the solution is that we should just pay for what things cost? The whole internet is like this, people often don't want to pay, they want it free, then the advertisers pay, we get pissy about advertising, and we become the product, and we flock to the next free thing after the free thing stops being free ... I wish things weren't all free…

Connection to internet is already not free.

Re: When “free forever” means “free for the next 4 months”

#140

Post by timeon »

MobiusHorizons wrote: post #65
tough wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Random thought but > that age like milk. Isn't aged milk cheese?

Cheese is typically aged but after it already became cheese by curdling (usually using renit) and undergoing some fermentation. In parts of the world where you can get raw milk (ie not the us) milk sours and becomes something like buttermilk. Some farmers cheeses are made from raw milk that has curdled in this way. In the us, milk is pasteurized completely enough that it rots instead of souring. I believe this phrase…

Also most of wine do not age well. Especially white varieties (except for Riesling).
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