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When “free forever” means “free for the next 4 months”

blog.zulip.com

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Re: When “free forever” means “free for the next 4 months”

#61

Post by alsobrsp »

newscracker wrote: post #59

This is well written, but it doesn’t really explain how or why Zulip will maintain its free plan forever. However, the existence of this post also makes Zulip committed deeper to not pull the rug on the free plan. Whenever that happens, I’d like to believe that there would be grandfathering for existing users on the free plan (unlike the rug pull that Google attempted with its free GSuite/Workplace offering and decid…

I have been using a free plan for over two years. Zulip is awesome and, in my opinion, way better that slack. I use both on a daily basis.

Re: When “free forever” means “free for the next 4 months”

#62

Post by sigstoat »

newscracker wrote: post #59

This is well written, but it doesn’t really explain how or why Zulip will maintain its free plan forever. However, the existence of this post also makes Zulip committed deeper to not pull the rug on the free plan. Whenever that happens, I’d like to believe that there would be grandfathering for existing users on the free plan (unlike the rug pull that Google attempted with its free GSuite/Workplace offering and decid…

> This is well written, but it doesn’t really explain how or why Zulip will maintain its free plan forever.

i don't see anywhere zulip has made that claim, merely that it is currently free. in fact, it explains that they're careful about what promises they make, so that they don't end up having to break them.

Re: When “free forever” means “free for the next 4 months”

#63

Post by vel0city »

blagie wrote: post #30
donatj wrote: post #18

Is there ground for legal action, particularly if you depended on this? It seems like a contract of sorts, and if any of their sales people ever assured anyone it was "free forever" I think that becomes a verbal contact.

Yes. It does not become a "verbal contract," but the concept is promissory estoppel. Look it up. If you make a promise, and I rely on that promise, and I suffer financial loss, you're liable. It's a good idea too. If you promise that a plan will be free forever, people should be able to rely on that promise. You might get beta tester, promoters, or whatever you want. If those people stop being useful to you, you can'…

In many jurisdictions contracts can't actually be "forever" though. They need to have some kind of possible end state.

Re: When “free forever” means “free for the next 4 months”

#64

Post by sigstoat »

nimbius wrote: post #19
jxf wrote: post #2

This blog post is from the "never let a competitor's mistake go unnoticed" school of thought.

I feel like if its 2023 and you're still gullible enough to fall for "free forever" bait and switch offerings from cloud providers then we need to have a frank discussion on neofeudalist late stage capitalism where a mainstay of its many successes in the digital realm is to literally trick you into consuming a product and pretend like it never happened.

> neofeudalist late stage capitalism

how does that differ from "late stage capitalism" and/or "neofeudalist capitalism"?

Re: When “free forever” means “free for the next 4 months”

#65

Post by MobiusHorizons »

tough wrote: post #8
rvz wrote: post #3

All because they took VC money and now they are under pressure to start acting like a business and ‘make money’ instead of burning it for so-called ‘free forever’ deals that age like milk.

I agree. Random thought but > that age like milk. Isn't aged milk cheese?

Cheese is typically aged but after it already became cheese by curdling (usually using renit) and undergoing some fermentation.

In parts of the world where you can get raw milk (ie not the us) milk sours and becomes something like buttermilk. Some farmers cheeses are made from raw milk that has curdled in this way.

In the us, milk is pasteurized completely enough that it rots instead of souring. I believe this phrase is American in origin, and is intended to be in contrast to the phrase “ages like fine wine”. Whatever the case milk does not become better milk with time.

Re: When “free forever” means “free for the next 4 months”

#66

Post by labster »

nimbius wrote: post #19
jxf wrote: post #2

This blog post is from the "never let a competitor's mistake go unnoticed" school of thought.

I feel like if its 2023 and you're still gullible enough to fall for "free forever" bait and switch offerings from cloud providers then we need to have a frank discussion on neofeudalist late stage capitalism where a mainstay of its many successes in the digital realm is to literally trick you into consuming a product and pretend like it never happened.

Neofeudalist late stage capitalism would have let boomers continue to have “free forever” plans while prices increased for everyone younger.

Re: When “free forever” means “free for the next 4 months”

#67

Post by CUViper »

sigstoat wrote: post #62
newscracker wrote: post #59

This is well written, but it doesn’t really explain how or why Zulip will maintain its free plan forever. However, the existence of this post also makes Zulip committed deeper to not pull the rug on the free plan. Whenever that happens, I’d like to believe that there would be grandfathering for existing users on the free plan (unlike the rug pull that Google attempted with its free GSuite/Workplace offering and decid…

> This is well written, but it doesn’t really explain how or why Zulip will maintain its free plan forever. i don't see anywhere zulip has made that claim, merely that it is currently free. in fact, it explains that they're careful about what promises they make, so that they don't end up having to break them.

In the conclusion:

> We fully expect to continue offering the Zulip Cloud Free plan indefinitely,

Re: When “free forever” means “free for the next 4 months”

#68

Post by TimTheTinker »

0xcde4c3db wrote: post #16
tough wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should at least grandfathered any users on the -free forever- plan

Agreed. Does anyone have any insight as to why companies fail to do this? Naively as a non-{marketing,business development,COO} guy, I feel like the cost to keep delivering those services ought to pale in comparison to the value of having even a tiny number of those customers go into a forum like HN or Reddit and say "we've been there since the early days and we're really happy". Sure, it's inherently a tech/financia…

> Does anyone have any insight as to why companies fail to do this?

Because their responsibility to do so hasn't (yet) been translated into legal liability.

A lot would change if someone could successfully sue a company for not keeping one of these sorts of promises.

Re: When “free forever” means “free for the next 4 months”

#70

Post by duxup »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #56
duxup wrote: post #43

Maybe it works to have a free tier and yank the rug out from everyone, and maybe the solution is that we should just pay for what things cost? The whole internet is like this, people often don't want to pay, they want it free, then the advertisers pay, we get pissy about advertising, and we become the product, and we flock to the next free thing after the free thing stops being free ... I wish things weren't all free…

> maybe the solution is that we should just pay for what things cost? Well I bet how much those free accounts were costing is way less than $10 per month per user. The self hosting page suggests that you can have "up to 1,000 users" on a few dollar VPS. A little more if you need to upload tons and tons of images.

Be nice if there was a widely accepted small payments type system that would make $10 a month less standard.
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