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Money Laundering and AML Compliance

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Re: Money Laundering and AML Compliance

#141

Post by rocqua »

josephcsible wrote: post #16

> At many institutions, one SAR is a non-event. Two, for a retail client, means one gets a letter saying the bank wishes you the best in your future endeavors and will not bank you anymore. That letter will often mention that this is a commercial decision of the bank and will not be reversed. Some clients receiving that letter will, on attempting to open account at a different bank, get refused because the first bank…

The latter isn't a stated policy, but the result of many interacting policies, incentives, and institutions. Hence it is hard to fix, hard to recognize as existing, and hard to prove to others as being a problem.

In other words, you can't get people to care, and even if you could, they would have no idea what to demand.

Whilst the former problem is (according to other comments) largely affecting African Americans. There is huge momentum behind preventing institutions from consistently disadvantaging African Americans.

(Note I have no clue whether African Americans more commonly bounce checks and get debanked for it)

Re: Money Laundering and AML Compliance

#143

Post by abofh »

scrollaway wrote: post #88
IG_Semmelweiss wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot end such a compelling sentence.. and not finish your thoughts in writing!! What are the better options?

wise.com for example.

Wise has brutal aml and zero kyc - I was abroad and using wise as I thought it intended, as a means to transfer from my US accounts to my EU accounts, both happy and kyc'd through the roof. Account closed, would you like to click a button that feigns an appeals process? Click here to have it instantly denied!

Re: Money Laundering and AML Compliance

#144

Post by harvey9 »

irusensei wrote: post #23
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> annoy him so much with retarded requirements he will leave by himself This is rare. It may be the effect. But plenty of financial institutions openly deny risky accounts; no need to needlessly spin wheels. Your broader point is correct, however. Because of the risk, a lot will be demanded. Because of the reward, nobody is motivated to push back on compliance.

> This is rare. I have a funny passport so some institutions are often probing my life and the source of my funds. The criminal records translated to english (I’m not from an english speaking country, I don’t live or work on an english peaking country) happened to me. I also had a chat with a polish woman who told me that UK banks required documents about her grandparents nationality when she went there for study cir…

My friend from asia arrived in the UK to study in 2011 and her school recommended all their students to a nearby high street bank. No difficulty opening an account with a passport and letter from the school.

There was almost certainly something crooked though: The account had a monthly fee, but almost anyone can get an account with no fees if they know about them.

Re: Money Laundering and AML Compliance

#145

Post by harvey9 »

btilly wrote: post #56
NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The result of which is indistinguishable from xenophobia. Yeah, but it's not xenophobia: it's mandatory compliance activity associated with a framework that - if it did not exist - banks would not do. Motives matter. Xenophobia wouldn't be distributed in accordance with weak national finance controls etc.

Any instance is plausibly not xenophobia. Which ones are is hard to prove. But in practice it is set up and carried out by people who often have some level of personal xenophobia. Thereby generating an institutional cover for personal feelings. The extent of this is impossible to verify. But certainly more than zero. And, anecdotally, likely far more than zero. That the policies are not simply distributed in accordan…

This seems more like following AML rules and not being interested in helping a working class person open an account because its not profitable. If you think retail banking is staffed by 'people who often have some level of personal' _racism_, just say so.

Re: Money Laundering and AML Compliance

#146

Post by raincom »

JusticeJuice wrote: post #67

Excellent essay. The 10k rule mentioned is totally a thing. I was at a company implementing AML for the first time, and the compliance team told us to add it, which I always thought was an inane. They came up with a variety of rules with just arbitrary figures in them, including the 10k rule. Didn't matter if you had previously been transacting 7k regularly before jumping to 10k, didn't take overall volume into accou…

These days, AML algos look at cash transactions in a sliding window fashion: $2k ATM deposit on Jan 1, 2022; $3k cash deposit on Jan 21, 2022; $3k cash deposit on Feb. 28, 2022; $3k cash deposit on March 18, 2022. Boom, in the span of 3 months, $11k cash deposits, back office (not tellers) can file a SAR.

Re: Money Laundering and AML Compliance

#147

Post by novok »

wpietri wrote: post #126
etherael wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So crime was not at a manageable level prior to say 1970, when none of these AMLKYC laws existed? And crime has not been at a manageable level after say 2008 when crypto came into existence and made it impossible to actually enforce? Man, for that brief shining window we really had perfection.

Yes, actually, the American mafia has declined severely since its heyday. There are surely many reasons, as it's part of a broader decline in crime in recent decades, but the increased difficulty of cleaning dirty money is part of it. And crime has definitely gone up because of cryptocurrency. I'm not sure how much it has affected the more traditional sorts of crime, as I don't think it's much of a help in turning di…

AML regulations prevent about %0.05 of criminal proceeds from being 'harvested' and the cost of these compliance regimes costs vastly more than the value they bring. And it enables a vast financial surveillance system and a huge industry of AML analysts doing pointless busy work writing SARs nobody cares about.

The US mafia declined because of the rico act and the fact that there was less racism and better integration of italian americans. The current ethnic crime groups of today are different.

IMO AML is security theatre, much like the post 9/11 flying regulations making everyone's lives worse, especially if your name is Mohammed sending money to family back home in the home country.

Re: Money Laundering and AML Compliance

#148

Post by aravindgp »

datavirtue wrote: post #100
lotsofpulp wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The best example: if you want to get a mortgage to buy a house you have submit to a financial strip search. But if you want to buy a house with bags of cash, you don’t even need to give your name. What is this an example of? You are submitting a financial strip search because the lender wants to ensure the borrower can pay the debt, not to ensure they are a criminal or not. And that is because prior to 2008, lender…

Zero underwriting? You obviously do not know what you are talking about. I got a "no-doc" non-conforming FHA loan back then. They fucking strip searched me. It was not easy--I still have PTSD from it. That same loan is still available on the market. You also need a citation on your reason for the financial crisis of 2008. I had to walk away from my home BECAUSE of the financial crisis (after having paid down 90% of t…

It must be very difficult and emotional nightmare to walk out of your house. I'm sorry to hear that you lost your home. I don't know specifically what caused the financial crisis of 2008, but I do know that it was complex and had many factors. I'm sorry that you had to go through that.

Re: Money Laundering and AML Compliance

#149

Post by thaumasiotes »

tablespoon wrote: post #38
josephcsible wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is "if you gambled but we found out you weren't allowed to gamble, we'll take back your winnings but not give back your losses" legal? Shouldn't it have to be either "we'll reset everything back to before you gambled" or "everything you already did stands; you just can't do anymore (and are probably in trouble)"?

> Why is "if you gambled but we found out you weren't allowed to gamble, we'll take back your winnings but not give back your losses" legal? I don't know the actual law is, but it could be that the customer is the one who committed the crime of illegal gambling. If that's the case, it doesn't matter if keeping his winnings is legal or illegal, if the gambler brings suit he puts himself in legal jeopardy and I don't t…

> a hitman can't go to court to force his client to pay

Somehow I doubt that causes many problems in trying to collect from clients.

Re: Money Laundering and AML Compliance

#150

Post by icelancer »

habinero wrote: post #127
icelancer wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm also debanked, but sporadically, and weirdly at only some investment institutions. Fidelity outright banned me and demanded I call in to withdraw my money between absurd hours. I sent them an intent to file a lawsuit and I got my money wired within 48 hours. Vanguard and TD Ameritrade have no problem taking my money. I'm also banned at Zelle, but Venmo and CashApp and Paypal are all fine. What a weird world. Of c…

I'm sure you know exactly what shady thing you did to get yourself banned.

I've gambled online (which is legal) and owned cryptocurrency through Coinbase (also legal). So... I guess?
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