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Money Laundering and AML Compliance

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Re: Money Laundering and AML Compliance

#21

Post by irusensei »

malux85 wrote: post #9
irusensei wrote: post #4

It is expensive to keep a crime and corruption department on your banking institution. If you are dealing with a millionaire who is related to some oil mogul in Russia you can do your due diligence and Vladimirovich can hire a team of accountants to prove that his business is legit and not at all related to the corporativist oligarchy his uncle runs. Or it might be, but the risk vs reward is good enough to turn a bli…

Also - wait until Ivan has put 10k in your system, then ask for the documents and refuse to give the money back hoping he will abandon it. - Lawful evil AML companies

I think I’ve heard someone calling this shotgun KYC. They will allow you to deposit but as soon as you show signs of using that money they take it as hostage until you prove you are not a criminal.

Re: Money Laundering and AML Compliance

#22

Post by pjkundert »

timerol wrote: post #20
pjkundert wrote: post #2

Governor Tarkin: Princess Leia, before your execution, you will join me at a ceremony that will make this battle station operational. No star system will dare oppose the Emperor now. Princess Leia: The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers. Every government and central bank in the world is tightening their grip around the tiniest transactions of their citizenry. In t…

> burdening 8 billion law-abiding Citizens with impossibly complex and arduous KYC/AML requirements TFA notes that "This will affect the typical user of the financial system precisely zero times during their lives." It is very much not a complex and arduous situation in most instances, only in very few edge cases. (Which patio11 wants us to pay closer attention to.) I had occasion to unexpectedly transfer $10k over A…

Ihre Papeire bitte.

Stop And Frisk.

Nobody without something to hide should want privacy/encryption.

Forcing 8 Billion people to KYC/AML before buying a coffee or helping a relative isn't too much to ask.

Amirite? /s

Re: Money Laundering and AML Compliance

#23

Post by irusensei »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #14
irusensei wrote: post #4

It is expensive to keep a crime and corruption department on your banking institution. If you are dealing with a millionaire who is related to some oil mogul in Russia you can do your due diligence and Vladimirovich can hire a team of accountants to prove that his business is legit and not at all related to the corporativist oligarchy his uncle runs. Or it might be, but the risk vs reward is good enough to turn a bli…

> annoy him so much with retarded requirements he will leave by himself This is rare. It may be the effect. But plenty of financial institutions openly deny risky accounts; no need to needlessly spin wheels. Your broader point is correct, however. Because of the risk, a lot will be demanded. Because of the reward, nobody is motivated to push back on compliance.

> This is rare.

I have a funny passport so some institutions are often probing my life and the source of my funds. The criminal records translated to english (I’m not from an english speaking country, I don’t live or work on an english peaking country) happened to me.

I also had a chat with a polish woman who told me that UK banks required documents about her grandparents nationality when she went there for study circa 2014.

I am convinced xenophobia is alive and well through the financial system. Hell… even cheered by often progressive people who thinks the AML/KYC framework is protecting their lands from foreign barbarians.

Re: Money Laundering and AML Compliance

#24

Post by abdullahkhalids »

psobot wrote: post #3

Every post from patio11 is such a joy to read: precise, exact, descriptive, and entertaining. I'd love to understand where his writing style comes from and how to emulate it.

I really hope he compiles these blogposts into a book. There is so much nuanced industry knowledge here.

> I'd love to understand where his writing style comes from and how to emulate it.

In the "good old days" they made students memorize passages from great authors and reproduce them. The idea being that this process will force you to think about the structure of their sentences and vocabulary. I used to do this when I was a kid, but I don't think I did it enough to have an impact.

Re: Money Laundering and AML Compliance

#25

Post by mistrial9 »

irusensei wrote: post #23
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> annoy him so much with retarded requirements he will leave by himself This is rare. It may be the effect. But plenty of financial institutions openly deny risky accounts; no need to needlessly spin wheels. Your broader point is correct, however. Because of the risk, a lot will be demanded. Because of the reward, nobody is motivated to push back on compliance.

> This is rare. I have a funny passport so some institutions are often probing my life and the source of my funds. The criminal records translated to english (I’m not from an english speaking country, I don’t live or work on an english peaking country) happened to me. I also had a chat with a polish woman who told me that UK banks required documents about her grandparents nationality when she went there for study cir…

a large backdrop to this topic is controlling Oil and Gas trade dollars .. narco dollars is real and large, but OaG trade volumes are large and increasingly fought over..

also agree on the xenophobia -- but instead of culture this is turf wars over control of large dollar trade over time

Re: Money Laundering and AML Compliance

#26

Post by cmeacham98 »

irusensei wrote: post #21
malux85 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also - wait until Ivan has put 10k in your system, then ask for the documents and refuse to give the money back hoping he will abandon it. - Lawful evil AML companies

I think I’ve heard someone calling this shotgun KYC. They will allow you to deposit but as soon as you show signs of using that money they take it as hostage until you prove you are not a criminal.

Common with offshore online casinos: you can deposit and lose your money, but as soon as you try to withdraw winnings the KYC rolls out and you better hope you're not a US citizen because you weren't even supposed to sign up in the first place then.

Re: Money Laundering and AML Compliance

#27

Post by josephcsible »

cmeacham98 wrote: post #26
irusensei wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I’ve heard someone calling this shotgun KYC. They will allow you to deposit but as soon as you show signs of using that money they take it as hostage until you prove you are not a criminal.

Common with offshore online casinos: you can deposit and lose your money, but as soon as you try to withdraw winnings the KYC rolls out and you better hope you're not a US citizen because you weren't even supposed to sign up in the first place then.

Why is "if you gambled but we found out you weren't allowed to gamble, we'll take back your winnings but not give back your losses" legal? Shouldn't it have to be either "we'll reset everything back to before you gambled" or "everything you already did stands; you just can't do anymore (and are probably in trouble)"?

Re: Money Laundering and AML Compliance

#28

Post by NovemberWhiskey »

irusensei wrote: post #23
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> annoy him so much with retarded requirements he will leave by himself This is rare. It may be the effect. But plenty of financial institutions openly deny risky accounts; no need to needlessly spin wheels. Your broader point is correct, however. Because of the risk, a lot will be demanded. Because of the reward, nobody is motivated to push back on compliance.

> This is rare. I have a funny passport so some institutions are often probing my life and the source of my funds. The criminal records translated to english (I’m not from an english speaking country, I don’t live or work on an english peaking country) happened to me. I also had a chat with a polish woman who told me that UK banks required documents about her grandparents nationality when she went there for study cir…

>I am convinced xenophobia is alive and well through the financial system.

It's really not. You don't make money by unnecessarily turning business away.

Re: Money Laundering and AML Compliance

#30

Post by exbanker »

timerol wrote: post #20
pjkundert wrote: post #2

Governor Tarkin: Princess Leia, before your execution, you will join me at a ceremony that will make this battle station operational. No star system will dare oppose the Emperor now. Princess Leia: The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers. Every government and central bank in the world is tightening their grip around the tiniest transactions of their citizenry. In t…

> burdening 8 billion law-abiding Citizens with impossibly complex and arduous KYC/AML requirements TFA notes that "This will affect the typical user of the financial system precisely zero times during their lives." It is very much not a complex and arduous situation in most instances, only in very few edge cases. (Which patio11 wants us to pay closer attention to.) I had occasion to unexpectedly transfer $10k over A…

This is just factually untrue. AML policies unjustly affect millions of Americans.

At US Bank, you can’t deposit cash without an ID which is standard post 2018 or so. Yet go to a US Bank in a low income area, deposit $100 in a family member’s account and they will ask for ID, social security number and your job.

US Bank has been involved in multiple money laundering scandals leading to deferred criminal prosecution.

Many friends have times where they can’t withdraw their own cash, have had accounts closed, have been falsely reported for fraud without any recourse etc etc.

Also because financial fraud and identity theft is rarely prosecuted, regular Americans are bombarded with friction and hassle to transact.

People outside normal banking use Chime or prepaid bank cards, which promptly get banned from being used in a wide variety of businesses.

AML policies and the Bank Secrecy Act is a violation of the 4th Amendment. The BSA (a misnomer) has expanded in scope since the 70s and as money has inflated. It’s went from an adjusted $70,000+ to $600 today (or $85 in 1970s dollars).

And it seems the Supreme Court is going to act on the BSA sometime in the next year. It is a crime against the individual, a violation of civil rights and indefensible.

It is purely motivated by tax enforcement and controlling the population. It does not prevent or identify crime. There is an estimated trillion+ of trade based money laundering every year.

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