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Money Laundering and AML Compliance

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Re: Money Laundering and AML Compliance

#11

Post by notch898a »

malux85 wrote: post #9
irusensei wrote: post #4

It is expensive to keep a crime and corruption department on your banking institution. If you are dealing with a millionaire who is related to some oil mogul in Russia you can do your due diligence and Vladimirovich can hire a team of accountants to prove that his business is legit and not at all related to the corporativist oligarchy his uncle runs. Or it might be, but the risk vs reward is good enough to turn a bli…

Also - wait until Ivan has put 10k in your system, then ask for the documents and refuse to give the money back hoping he will abandon it. - Lawful evil AML companies

Or send him a check for the balance and then put derogatory information under chexsystems and all the other banking blacklists so it can't be cashed.

Re: Money Laundering and AML Compliance

#12

Post by matheusmoreira »

pjkundert wrote: post #2

Governor Tarkin: Princess Leia, before your execution, you will join me at a ceremony that will make this battle station operational. No star system will dare oppose the Emperor now. Princess Leia: The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers. Every government and central bank in the world is tightening their grip around the tiniest transactions of their citizenry. In t…

> And then, they wonder why people are being driven to use Cryptocurrency...

If only. Normal people are only buying crypto to speculate. They drive the price up to absurd levels and then write it all off as a scam when it corrects. Meanwhile good technology like Monero remains marginalized instead of replacing the USD as it should.

Re: Money Laundering and AML Compliance

#13

Post by ourmandave »

pjkundert wrote: post #2

Governor Tarkin: Princess Leia, before your execution, you will join me at a ceremony that will make this battle station operational. No star system will dare oppose the Emperor now. Princess Leia: The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers. Every government and central bank in the world is tightening their grip around the tiniest transactions of their citizenry. In t…

I dunno, I sent Sam Bankman Fried all my Galactic fiat credits, and suddenly couldn't make withdrawals.

I called my senator to look into it, but then I find out the Emperor has dissolved the senate.

Re: Money Laundering and AML Compliance

#14

Post by JumpCrisscross »

irusensei wrote: post #4

It is expensive to keep a crime and corruption department on your banking institution. If you are dealing with a millionaire who is related to some oil mogul in Russia you can do your due diligence and Vladimirovich can hire a team of accountants to prove that his business is legit and not at all related to the corporativist oligarchy his uncle runs. Or it might be, but the risk vs reward is good enough to turn a bli…

> annoy him so much with retarded requirements he will leave by himself

This is rare. It may be the effect. But plenty of financial institutions openly deny risky accounts; no need to needlessly spin wheels.

Your broader point is correct, however. Because of the risk, a lot will be demanded. Because of the reward, nobody is motivated to push back on compliance.

Re: Money Laundering and AML Compliance

#15

Post by wcunning »

The best thing I've read on this topic is from Matt Levine at Bloomberg, restated in his newsletter on Wednesday: "In general, the chief compliance officer at any company has a dial in front of her that she can turn to get More Crime or Less Crime, and at a normal company — a bank, for instance — her job consists of (1) turning it most of the way toward Less Crime, but (2) not all the way, and (3) acting very contrite when politicians and regulators yell at her about the residual crime. “We have a zero-tolerance policy for crime,” she will say, and almost mean."

Re: Money Laundering and AML Compliance

#16

Post by josephcsible »

> At many institutions, one SAR is a non-event. Two, for a retail client, means one gets a letter saying the bank wishes you the best in your future endeavors and will not bank you anymore. That letter will often mention that this is a commercial decision of the bank and will not be reversed. Some clients receiving that letter will, on attempting to open account at a different bank, get refused because the first bank entered them into Chexsytems as “account closed at bank’s discretion” and the second bank, on reviewing that entry, said “yep, we are not touching this hot potato.”

> Frustratingly, regulators will say “Well, that is the bank’s decision. We didn’t direct them to do that.”, even though the purpose and effect of AML regulations is causing a lot of behavior not specifically asked for. Banks will, meanwhile, say “Our hands are tied. Look at these enforcement actions. Clearly, this is an unacceptable level of risk.” And meanwhile, there is an actual person who has done nothing wrong and now finds themselves somewhere between greatly inconvenienced and frozen out of the financial system entirely.

Why is there so much opposition to "you can't have a bank account anymore because when you had one, one of your checks would bounce almost every week", but so little opposition to "you can't have a bank account anymore for something that doesn't constitute proof of wrongdoing"?

Re: Money Laundering and AML Compliance

#17

Post by pjkundert »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #12
pjkundert wrote: post #2

Governor Tarkin: Princess Leia, before your execution, you will join me at a ceremony that will make this battle station operational. No star system will dare oppose the Emperor now. Princess Leia: The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers. Every government and central bank in the world is tightening their grip around the tiniest transactions of their citizenry. In t…

> And then, they wonder why people are being driven to use Cryptocurrency... If only. Normal people are only buying crypto to speculate. They drive the price up to absurd levels and then write it all off as a scam when it corrects. Meanwhile good technology like Monero remains marginalized instead of replacing the USD as it should.

You seem to be speaking for ... a lot of people you can't possibly know -- such as me, and every person I work with and deal with on a day to day basis in the Crypto R&D field.

As for Monero -- don't complain, let's bring it mainstream by building something. Specifically: something that state-level interference can't stop, even if they're quivering in rage that it exists!

That's what us "speculators" who code every day on large-scale Cryptocurrency decentralized systems are doing...

Re: Money Laundering and AML Compliance

#18

Post by pyuser583 »

irusensei wrote: post #4

It is expensive to keep a crime and corruption department on your banking institution. If you are dealing with a millionaire who is related to some oil mogul in Russia you can do your due diligence and Vladimirovich can hire a team of accountants to prove that his business is legit and not at all related to the corporativist oligarchy his uncle runs. Or it might be, but the risk vs reward is good enough to turn a bli…

There’s a really great book called Kleptopia by T. Burgis. It’s about how wealthy oligarchs use the Western legal and banking systems.

He points out that the US financial system is squeaky clean. Oligarchs wind up in prison because they think they can pull the crap in New York that they pull in London.

But outside the financial sector it’s the 100% opposite. Americas permissive corporate transparency lets assets vanish.

The best example: if you want to get a mortgage to buy a house you have submit to a financial strip search. But if you want to buy a house with bags of cash, you don’t even need to give your name.

Re: Money Laundering and AML Compliance

#19

Post by Mandatum »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #14
irusensei wrote: post #4

It is expensive to keep a crime and corruption department on your banking institution. If you are dealing with a millionaire who is related to some oil mogul in Russia you can do your due diligence and Vladimirovich can hire a team of accountants to prove that his business is legit and not at all related to the corporativist oligarchy his uncle runs. Or it might be, but the risk vs reward is good enough to turn a bli…

> annoy him so much with retarded requirements he will leave by himself This is rare. It may be the effect. But plenty of financial institutions openly deny risky accounts; no need to needlessly spin wheels. Your broader point is correct, however. Because of the risk, a lot will be demanded. Because of the reward, nobody is motivated to push back on compliance.

Sure, but they like to allow as many of them in as they legally can. Hence the questions.

Re: Money Laundering and AML Compliance

#20

Post by timerol »

pjkundert wrote: post #2

Governor Tarkin: Princess Leia, before your execution, you will join me at a ceremony that will make this battle station operational. No star system will dare oppose the Emperor now. Princess Leia: The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers. Every government and central bank in the world is tightening their grip around the tiniest transactions of their citizenry. In t…

> burdening 8 billion law-abiding Citizens with impossibly complex and arduous KYC/AML requirements

TFA notes that "This will affect the typical user of the financial system precisely zero times during their lives." It is very much not a complex and arduous situation in most instances, only in very few edge cases. (Which patio11 wants us to pay closer attention to.) I had occasion to unexpectedly transfer $10k over ACH recently, and, while a few minutes on the phone with my bank confirming things was slightly annoying, I would describe it as neither complex nor arduous. I am confident that it did not trigger a CTR or SAR, given it was not a cash transaction, and I was happy to answer a few questions.

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