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France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

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Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#141

Post by kcplate »

jryb wrote: post #7

I eat only plant-based foods and actually prefer unique names/spellings for these products. It can be worrying when an ostensibly vegan restaurant sells something that really tastes like meat and the menu says "beef" or whatever.

I don’t have a strong opinion either way, I don’t eat plant based “meat” mainly because it’s over processed and tends to be higher in carbs than I prefer in my diet.

But your comment reminds me of philosophical question. If a company created a plant based meat analog that cooked, looked, and tasted just like human meat…should someone eat it? I don’t pose this to make fun of vegans or the plant based meat industry. I am actually curious to the mindset behind these meat analogs.

My own answer to that question is I wonder why a vegan would opt for any plant based meat analog. It just seems that the mindset should be as strange as this fictional plant based human meat.

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#142

Post by 6510 »

tjr225 wrote: post #60

If you’ve ever been tricked into eating vegan or plant based meat alternatives based on packaging alone, you might be a moron.

We also sell food without packaging. If the menu says it are sausages you expect them. Have to stop it at some point. Imagine a cheese burger that just doesn't have meat or cheese?

But sure, there is a sweet spot between morons and greed but just because you're a moron doesn't make it okay.

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#143

Post by qbrass »

HKH2 wrote: post #121
saalweachter wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"better than vegan cheese" should walk the line of accuracy, deception, and marketing.

I Can Believe It's Not Vegan Cheese!

I Can't Believe It's Not 'I Can Believe It's Not Vegan Cheese!'!

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#144

Post by k8si »

SllX wrote: post #87
k8si wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine this was probably user error on your part. The vegan cheese is usually on the other end of the grocery store from the real cheese, and also usually says 'vegan' prominently, and also there are only like 2-3 brands that make vegan cheese (Miyoko, Daiya, maybe 1 other?). And vegans still usually have to read the ingredients to make sure. Non-vegans could probably do the same if it were that important.

Ah, the “you’re holding it wrong” argument re-contextualized as “you’re just shopping wrong”. Unfortunately that is not always the case. I don’t know about the parent but I accidentally bought a “Chick’n Burrito” that was right next to the meat burritos. It did not taste like chicken. Could it have been avoided had I been more careful? Sure! On the other hand vegan dishes taste better than fake meat dishes and I real…

Again, vegans almost always have to read the ingredients/labels, on every processed food product they plan to consume. The little 'vegan' icon on the back is new and not consistently used. Choosing a plant based lifestyle is A LOT more burdensome than not doing that. I know because I've switched back and forth many times and am married to a vegan. Whey, casein, random cream, honey, they're in everything.

Even so: reading ingredients is honestly not that hard.

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#145

Post by inportb »

Natsu wrote: post #88
xdennis wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem is, consumers aren't actually confused. Nonsense! I was tricked. They: * make the products look like real sausages and cheese * sell them in the same packages * label them in large letters as the real thing * write "vegan" in small letters * put them next to the real things It's all done to trick people.

They do this with eye drops, too. If you're not careful, you'll get homeopathic eye drops which are just water. And it's hard to see tiny print when your eyes are sore and they sell them in the pharmacy, next to real medicine. I'm still not sure what "apis" is, but I hesitate to put anything related to bees in my eyes, given that this is a common allergen and I'm allergic to enough things already. One can only hope t…

No harsh chemicals! Just purified water, borate buffer, silver sulfate, sodium nitrate... Wait, what? Are we sure this is homeopathic?

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#146

Post by Nursie »

ggm wrote: post #46
Nursie wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> British Sausages cause hilarity in Europe. Honestly I don't really see why. Yeah the really cheap ones have a lower meat content than other countries tend to use, but german bratwurst are often around 85%(ish) meat, and it's very easy to find British sausages which have that much or higher meat content. I think like many British food stereotypes, it's likely several decades past being factual, and probably has its…

I don't see why either. I like some cereal in my sausage, I think it adds to the texture, and moistness, and I like the mouth feel of a blend of ingredients, but the relative % of meat and non-meat, for legal compliance with "sausagehood" is at root the problem. More filler-and-binder than meat? thats wierd. But.. legal. Does it relate to rationing? I am sure it does. Remember the UK kept rationing to the 1950s and w…

Fray Bentos! I haven't had one of those in... more years than I can remember. Puff pastry, processed sauce and ... lumps :)

I've migrated to Australia (again) recently and the diet here is pretty British too. Fish and Chips everywhere, though with more interesting fish and calamari on all the menus. 'Servo' pies which are sold from gas stations and are about as bad as fish and chip shop pies in the UK.

Sausages (well, 'snags') are a big thing here too, though the default meat seems to be beef. This includes my fix of real bad junk, which I used to indulge in a couple of times a year, usually when hungover, a McDonalds sausage McMuffin. It's just not the same when it's not cheap-ass over-salted pork...

I don't mind some cereal in a sausage, but that said I really did get to like "Heck" and some of the other 97%+ brands.

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#147

Post by hegelstoleit »

xdennis wrote: post #33
ggm wrote: post #23

This debate won't end in a hurry. We've been arguing about what beer is since the German beer laws and before. British Sausages cause hilarity in Europe. The idea that definitionally we can state a-priori what is or is not the current meaning of a term when language itself is plastic is kind of broken because the distinction between Cows, Cattle, Beef, Veal, Bison, Oxen, Bullock and Bull, Buffalo and Bison and Cow, G…

You're conflating metaphors with obfuscation. For example, coconut milk is named so simply because it's a white liquid. It's not trying to be a replacement for milk, or trying to confuse people, it's just a metaphor. But vegan milk, sausages, etc, are all meant to be as similar to the real things as possible so as to cause confusion.

Who the fuck is buying vegan meat and being like "oh I thought this was meat"? Do we seriously need to legislate that? There's no real victim here, it's just a bunch of people who are sour or feel threatened by meat alternatives. It's ridiculous.

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#148

Post by stkdump »

inportb wrote: post #133
autarch wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been vegan for c. 27 years and I like these products. I grew up eating meat and dairy, and I still like the flavor and mouth feel, but I hate the cruelty.

Quoted post unavailable.

I find it fascinating how triggered people get, when they hear people making a personal choice out of conviction. Almost as if they are being attacked on their own choices, which they are not.

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#149

Post by inportb »

stkdump wrote: post #148
inportb wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

I find it fascinating how triggered people get, when they hear people making a personal choice out of conviction. Almost as if they are being attacked on their own choices, which they are not.

No post body was provided.

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#150

Post by Nursie »

I'm personally good with "Chicken Style Vegetarian/Vegan Nuggets", "Chicken Style Schnitzels", "Vegetarian Steak", Plant-based burgers, made-with-plants "bacon" and all that.

I'm really very surprised at the number of people who seem offended by it. The products are made as substitutes for those specific things, some of them are very good, others not so much.

Bacon, for instance, already does not have to come from a pig. Turkey and beef bacon already exist. Plant-based bacon is just as valid, it's a product which fills that same niche for people who don't want an animal product. "Sausages" are already a very wide and lax term. Vegetarian and vegan sausages have been available in lots of countries for literally decades.

The only reason people are talking about this now is that the products are getting better and more popular, and the meat industry feels under threat. It's a naked land grab from them.

Yes, the difference between these products and meat should be easy to discern, writ large on the packaging. But in most cases it already is - the brands want vegetarians to find them!

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