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Religious Discrimination at Google

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Re: Religious Discrimination at Google

#141

Post by yakak »

jseban wrote: post #105
Renaud wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s quite baffling to me that people would start talking about religion at social events that are not related to religion in the first place. To me, one of the basic rules of social etiquette is never talk about religion or politics unless you’re amongst people who share your views or it’s a specific religious or political gathering. If I’m attending a social function, I certainly don’t want to hear about your relig…

> To me, one of the basic rules of social etiquette is never talk about religion or politics Yeah I agree, I'm also surprised, never talk about religion/politics, health or money, those are private matters shared with people you can choose freely, and not with colleagues or other random people you can't choose, but need to get along with.

When it comes to money we should more freely talk about it. Trying to prevent discussions of salary and benefits is largely to keep us from shared understanding of the market rate, etc, which penalizes people less connected with the field.

Re: Religious Discrimination at Google

#143

Post by tialaramex »

verve_rat wrote: post #104
beebmam wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm open to believing anything, with appropriate evidence. The author makes specific claims about being judged by their manager for their religious beliefs. I'm not sure that's going to be enough to win a discrimination suit, but I wish them the best of luck. Religious discrimination at a workplace is (and should be) against the law. I hope they find the appropriate lawyer who can navigate this for them! (For what it…

That's... not how atheism works.

It's usually phrased as "I just believe in one fewer God than you".

Christians don't on the whole believe in Thor and Zeus and so on, and neither do Atheists. But the Christians seem very hung up on approximately one God, especially those who have the most superficial beliefs. Thus it can be seen as a small difference.

I say approximately because, well... Trinitarian Christianity. Most modern Christians claim to believe in "One God" who is somehow also "Three persons".

If you don't regard the New Testament as the Holy word of God, but just some stories then this Holy Trinity sure looks like the explanation for the Kessel Run in Star Wars, or that thing where Klingons changed appearance radically in Star Trek, or a dozen other places in fiction where holes in the story were patched clumsily and fans pretend to look the other way.

Re: Religious Discrimination at Google

#144

Post by ekianjo »

eps wrote: post #123
ken47 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you prove the Big Bang occurred? If so, can you prove that nothing preceded a Big Bang? If you are as rational as you arrogantly imply, then the obvious answers to these are no. Are you equally appalled when you come across average people talking about these theories as if they are facts? I wonder.

Big Bang is the best available explanation of observed facts. This doesn't mean it's the right one, but other explanations are inferior. Especially those provided by religions.

> Big Bang is the best available explanation of observed facts.

Best available is not proof. The sun rotating around the Earth was also the best explanation for a long time in Human history. Traditional physics theory was the best until we started to observe things at the atomic level. Certitudes in Science don't age well, and should teach humility more than absurd dogma.

Re: Religious Discrimination at Google

#145

Post by noelherrick »

I honestly wish more open-minded folks had pushed back on my Christian fundamentalism, in a kind way to broaden my perspective. I was raised in an evangelical family who believed in the inerrancy of the Bible, a literal hell, and that God is omnipresent, omnipotent, and omniscient, so quite hardcore. I carried most of these beliefs with me, although strangely enough, my dad encouraged reading, logic, and critical thinking. Then I spent years working with refugees, so when evangelical Christians embraced Trump, I was out and deconstructed my fundamentalism.

Before that, I took classes at my state university with arch-atheists and worked for companies with Christians, atheists, and agnostics. Never did I face discrimination or harassment. My church was always warning about secular humanist professors trying to destroy young Christian's faith. In reality, people who believed differently shrugged their shoulders and moved on, both in academia and professionally, even while my family was always talking about feeling constrained and censored by their work culture, specifically around LGBTQ+ topics.

I now work for a company (and participate in other spaces) that has all the different religions, non-religions, sexualities, nationalities, and genders, even before I left fundamentalism. I never felt "censored" by anyone there.

People that where not straight, white, and Christian gave me so much space to learn. They were patient. They took me aside and explained things when I said something stupid. I am humbled by that, and I want to encourage every effort to be more inclusive. Even things lambasted as symbols, tokens, or virtue signaling can instead be more charitably interpreted as trying to show that the person using them is safe, saying to the world, "I am trying to be an ally and making sure that everyone feels welcome." Moving to racism: imagine a society that 50 years ago would hang you in a tree for your skin color. Wouldn't you be a bit jumpy when someone does a micro-aggression? I know I would be on edge. Matthew Shepard was not that long ago. Prop 8 in California was even more recent.

This all to say, I would really try to sort out what is religious discrimination and what is trying to create a safe and inclusive workplace. The paradox of tolerance is that you cannot tolerate intolerance. If you believe your religion discriminates against people based on race, gender, sexuality, nationality, or other religions, then yes, you will face discrimination.

Re: Religious Discrimination at Google

#146

Post by l33t2328 »

KaiserPro wrote: post #43

There are two things to tease out here. 1) the Indian caste system is not _just_ religious discrimination, its a class system that is devilishly tricky to escape. Its difficult to comprehend in the USA because the class system there is basically skin colour>money>very distant last religion. OP touches on this, but doesn't really quite grasp the difference. The implication is that he is but a poor dalit, because of hi…

Ranking skin color above money in the USA is…interesting.

Re: Religious Discrimination at Google

#147

Post by k1ll3r »

kaba0 wrote: post #82
k1ll3r wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The notion that humanity would be morally lost without the guidance of religious belief is laughable. For sake of gaining some perspective and widening one's thoughts I'd suggest reading the works of any of the number of major philosophers. And if you need to read in some book that oppression is bad, that murdering people is bad, that basic human rights are a good idea, etc. - if you need to read that in a book and h…

> And if you need to read in some book that oppression is bad, that murdering people is bad, that basic human rights are a good idea, etc I mean, you just called generations upon generations bad people.. Like, morals also evolve with society, and everyone is influenced by the society they grow up in. Just a very easy counterexample -- gladiator fights were perfectly acceptable in people in Rome. Were they bad people…

Yes.

Re: Religious Discrimination at Google

#148

Post by ComodoHacker »

xiphias2 wrote: post #76
dinobones wrote: post #8

This is funny to me as someone who participates in Christians @ Google and weekly prayer. The few coworkers outside of that who know of my faith are very accepting. I have never personally experienced any kind of discrimination, but perhaps I could have if I had different teammates.

Try talking about it aggressively with everybody all the time (try your accepting colleagues to come to the weekly prayers), and I guess you will get bad feedback at some point. I have a friend who's in the church of scientology, but he never tried to convience me that Xeno alien god took over human souls.

> he never tried

Are you sure this isn't because you aren't rich enough? :)

Re: Religious Discrimination at Google

#149

Post by Hammershaft »

Renaud wrote: post #51
krisoft wrote: post #23

Quoting the most concrete example he gives: > If you start talking about your religious beliefs at a social event people treat you like you just farted in their face. They frequently will scrunch up their faces and might ask a question like “Do you REALLY believe all that stuff?” When you tell them that you do they might even go so far as to say “Sorry that’s just not the kind of thing I associate with someone as sma…

It’s quite baffling to me that people would start talking about religion at social events that are not related to religion in the first place. To me, one of the basic rules of social etiquette is never talk about religion or politics unless you’re amongst people who share your views or it’s a specific religious or political gathering. If I’m attending a social function, I certainly don’t want to hear about your relig…

> To me, one of the basic rules of social etiquette is never talk about religion or politics unless you’re amongst people who share your views or it’s a specific religious or political gathering.

This strikes me as a tradition that seriously bolsters religious & political partisanship in America.

Re: Religious Discrimination at Google

#150

Post by paganel »

krisoft wrote: post #23

Quoting the most concrete example he gives: > If you start talking about your religious beliefs at a social event people treat you like you just farted in their face. They frequently will scrunch up their faces and might ask a question like “Do you REALLY believe all that stuff?” When you tell them that you do they might even go so far as to say “Sorry that’s just not the kind of thing I associate with someone as sma…

It is discrimination, and I say that as an atheist. Imagine asking a devout Hindu: “you really don’t eat beef? How crazy is that? Do you know how good it tastes?” or questioning a devout Hebrew about he not doing any work on Shabbat.
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