Religious Discrimination at Google • Hacker News Board

Re: Religious Discrimination at Google

#11

Post by eric4smith » Sun, Jun 12, 2022, 7:16 AM UTC

Bruh.

When are people going to stop expecting large public companies to cater to their every whim?

It seems these days people are expecting every possible form of accommodation and bending backwards.

People have forgotten in these companies you are there to give your time and get paid for said time given. Period.

Companies will do things to help employees spend even more hours and be more loyal to their workplace in the name of kowtowing to some kind of social or special interest group.

But one should never look upon that as a right.

One should always look on it as what it really is. A way to get more hours and loyalty from the employee.

So long as the company is not nakedly abusing anyone (and companies are not so stupid) - we should go ahead, give the hours, get paid for said hours and do social activism in personal hours far away from the precincts of the workplace.

Re: Religious Discrimination at Google

#12

Post by hackyhacky » Sun, Jun 12, 2022, 7:16 AM UTC

UberFly wrote: post #9

hackyhacky wrote: post #3

In this article, the author doesn't provide any concrete example of the religious discrimination that he's allegedly experienced, or how it's impacted him in any way. It seems that he's very eager to play the victim. A good example of his rush to victimhood is when he tells how he confronted leadership about why Google hasn't opened an engineering office in Louisiana. He seems to take the fact that Google doesn't hav…

Let me replace the word religious with racial: "In this article, the author doesn't provide any concrete example of the racial discrimination that he's allegedly experienced, or how it's impacted him in any way. It seems that he's very eager to play the victim." Sounds familiar now doesn't it? Claims like that have been dismissed for decades. Don't be so quick to get on the dismissal train.

On the contrary, victims of racial discrimination often have no problem giving concrete examples.

Re: Religious Discrimination at Google

#13

Post by beebmam » Sun, Jun 12, 2022, 7:18 AM UTC

TulliusCicero wrote: post #5

hackyhacky wrote: post #3

In this article, the author doesn't provide any concrete example of the religious discrimination that he's allegedly experienced, or how it's impacted him in any way. It seems that he's very eager to play the victim. A good example of his rush to victimhood is when he tells how he confronted leadership about why Google hasn't opened an engineering office in Louisiana. He seems to take the fact that Google doesn't hav…

Yeah. I'm open to believing there's more religious discrimination at Google -- and I have no trouble believing that being very Christian could make you a bit of a social pariah within the company -- but the lack of concrete examples is concerning. In the US, it's very common for right-wing Christians to exaggerate claims of religious discrimination. For example, many consider not allowing public school teachers/coach…

I'm open to believing anything, with appropriate evidence.

The author makes specific claims about being judged by their manager for their religious beliefs. I'm not sure that's going to be enough to win a discrimination suit, but I wish them the best of luck. Religious discrimination at a workplace is (and should be) against the law.

I hope they find the appropriate lawyer who can navigate this for them! (For what it's worth, I'm an atheist, and I don't think anyone should be discriminated for their religious beliefs, no matter what they are. We're all atheists of some religions.)

Re: Religious Discrimination at Google

#14

Post by kukx » Sun, Jun 12, 2022, 7:18 AM UTC

hackyhacky wrote: post #3

In this article, the author doesn't provide any concrete example of the religious discrimination that he's allegedly experienced, or how it's impacted him in any way. It seems that he's very eager to play the victim. A good example of his rush to victimhood is when he tells how he confronted leadership about why Google hasn't opened an engineering office in Louisiana. He seems to take the fact that Google doesn't hav…

If you were to replace the religious belief with gender in his story would your assessment stay the same? You can use this method for example in this quote: "...VPs of research laughing in my face to HR representatives questioning my sanity based on my sincerely held religious beliefs...".

Re: Religious Discrimination at Google

#15

Post by 0des » Sun, Jun 12, 2022, 7:19 AM UTC

WoahNoun wrote: post #7

TulliusCicero wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it sounds like they think Google's chatbot is sentient? ...okay.

Not just sentient but that the AI has a soul and deserves the full rights of personhood. Dude is mentally ill.

Do you feel the same way about people who believe their deity is a soul that was a person?

Re: Religious Discrimination at Google

#16

Post by k1ll3r » Sun, Jun 12, 2022, 7:22 AM UTC

But what if you really are crazy? Not a dysfunctional schizo type of crazy, but just talking to invisible deities in the sky and sincerely believing they are there type of crazy? Which is literally what the author (proudly) claims to be, no? Are we supposed to take such beliefs seriously? Being unable to tell people they're full of shit, in a respectful manner, is much more of a serious problem here. You want to hold certain beliefs and to express them, then you should be ready to be challenged. The more peculiar the beliefs the stronger and more immediate the challenges. Alternatively, you can, you know, just shut the fuck up and keep working on those wonderful products of yours and not pollute your social surroundings with religion that has oppressed and killed millions of people throughout history.

Re: Religious Discrimination at Google

#17

Post by hackyhacky » Sun, Jun 12, 2022, 7:24 AM UTC

kukx wrote: post #14

hackyhacky wrote: post #3

In this article, the author doesn't provide any concrete example of the religious discrimination that he's allegedly experienced, or how it's impacted him in any way. It seems that he's very eager to play the victim. A good example of his rush to victimhood is when he tells how he confronted leadership about why Google hasn't opened an engineering office in Louisiana. He seems to take the fact that Google doesn't hav…

If you were to replace the religious belief with gender in his story would your assessment stay the same? You can use this method for example in this quote: "...VPs of research laughing in my face to HR representatives questioning my sanity based on my sincerely held religious beliefs...".

My criticism of the article is not based on a false assumption that religious discrimination is impossible, but rather that the author fails to offer a plausible, evidence-based case that such discrimination is actually happening to him.

Failing to open an office in Louisiana is not evidence of religious discrimination. Obviously we can't know exactly how his conversation with the VP actually went, but I find the lack of detail to be conspicuous.

Re: Religious Discrimination at Google

#18

Post by hackyhacky » Sun, Jun 12, 2022, 7:25 AM UTC

k1ll3r wrote: post #16

But what if you really are crazy? Not a dysfunctional schizo type of crazy, but just talking to invisible deities in the sky and sincerely believing they are there type of crazy? Which is literally what the author (proudly) claims to be, no? Are we supposed to take such beliefs seriously? Being unable to tell people they're full of shit, in a respectful manner, is much more of a serious problem here. You want to hold…

> Not a dysfunctional schizo type of crazy, but just talking to invisible deities in the sky and sincerely believing they are there type of crazy?

Isn't that.. all religions?

Re: Religious Discrimination at Google

#19

Post by keithnz » Sun, Jun 12, 2022, 7:25 AM UTC

kukx wrote: post #14

hackyhacky wrote: post #3

In this article, the author doesn't provide any concrete example of the religious discrimination that he's allegedly experienced, or how it's impacted him in any way. It seems that he's very eager to play the victim. A good example of his rush to victimhood is when he tells how he confronted leadership about why Google hasn't opened an engineering office in Louisiana. He seems to take the fact that Google doesn't hav…

If you were to replace the religious belief with gender in his story would your assessment stay the same? You can use this method for example in this quote: "...VPs of research laughing in my face to HR representatives questioning my sanity based on my sincerely held religious beliefs...".

its not a simple matter of substituting gender though, this is about beliefs and it depends, if he's saying the chat bots have a soul, then I can imagine he is getting some diverse reactions ( from other thread ). But since this one doesn't give us concrete examples, hard to judge, but it sounds like maybe he is overlaying his religious beliefs on the work and perhaps thinking he is discriminated against for doing that? Generally in a professional environment there is just no mention of religion, but somehow its become a topic, not sure how.... and the details matter here.

Re: Religious Discrimination at Google

#20

Post by lultimouomo » Sun, Jun 12, 2022, 7:29 AM UTC

hackyhacky wrote: post #3

In this article, the author doesn't provide any concrete example of the religious discrimination that he's allegedly experienced, or how it's impacted him in any way. It seems that he's very eager to play the victim. A good example of his rush to victimhood is when he tells how he confronted leadership about why Google hasn't opened an engineering office in Louisiana. He seems to take the fact that Google doesn't hav…

I concur.

I submitted this link because it made me wonder what constitutes religious discrimination. If there is a non-work-related chat with colleagues, and someone thinks your opinion is wrong, I think they should be allowed to politely tell you. I think the author is not OK with this, if it's about religion (at least if many many people inside the company think he's wrong).

I get the reasons (both historical and present) that make religious disagreements a sensitive subject, and I can see how one would like to give some explicit protection to religious beliefs, but still I cannot ignore the fact we are talking about factual(ish) beliefs that one should be able to criticize.

Whatever you think that it's not relevant to your job (and it's not illegal) should affect your career; I don't know if that happened in this case but the author doesn't provide any example. But if you share your opinions, your colleagues are allowed to say you're wrong.