Sounds like independents need to band together and vertically integrate by creating a meat packing facility that serves them and passes on the profits. Similar to, albeit on a much smaller scale, how the local grange can allow farms to plan who is planting what and organize who owns what specialized equipment and the reasonable rate for them to utilize it at others' request.
High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching
141–150 of 259 posts
Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching
#142Earlier quoted context omitted.
Isn’t a cartel more about illicit collusion (often outright illegal) rather than forming a public organisation to act collectively?
Cartels violate antitrust laws. Labor unions in particular have an antitrust exception. But both of them are solving the problem from the wrong end. The question isn't how to negotiate with an existing monopolist that can screw you over with monopoly power, it's how to break their monopoly. "Get your own monopoly" not only doesn't fix it, it just makes it worse for everybody else. Congratulations, humans who eat food…
What other options. Is there for beef production?
Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching
#143Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am someone who usually gets their beef from costco, small middle eastern markets and sometimes when its on sale at the neighborhood grocery store (Publix). Would you mind sharing in what ways what I'm consuming is trash compared to what comes from small farms?
I took on some caged hens (about 6months back now) that were off for slaughter to be turned into dog food. Straight away they took to the patch of land in my garden I gave them and laid eggs .. the eggs they lay are on another level to anything store bought. I can put a pan of water on boil over a stove; crack an egg into it and have a perfect poached egg 2-3mins later. They are creamy and rich as if they have life c…
Of all of the farm products discussed in the thread, eggs show the biggest difference in my opinion
Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching
#144Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's true; it is. This year I bought half of a red angus cow straight from the farm. It turns red when it gets cooked. It's a sight to behold. The stuff you buy at the costco has been frozen and unfrozen at least twice before you buy it. That's already a meaningful difference. They clearly treat it with some sort of coloring agent. In the 30 years I have cooked meat, nothing can prepare you for real beef that comes s…
How did you go about finding a farm to buy from? I'm very interested in doing this.
Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching
#145I love raising my own meat, and look forward to being 100% self-sustainable for all meat consumption across hunting, fishing, and livestock for a family of 5. Meat processing and butchery is very rewarding. Turning a whole pig into a mix of charcuterie, roasts, and sausage doesn't take a lot of time and is completely worth it. This is the opposite of cheap, and is not a 'profitable' endeavor by any means. Buying from…
This all sounds pretty labor intensive to me. About how many hours per year do you think goes in to this? Like is this something that could be a weekend hobby? Or does it require more substantial lifestyle change?
Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching
#146As a small farmer, I can tell you: independent small-scale farming is not profitable in any meaningful manner. Government is actively killing it, by giving away every possible concession to Big Ag. The food in stores is pretty much all garbage compared to food raised on small farms. It sickens me to see things go this way, but this is the reality that we have created.
I am someone who usually gets their beef from costco, small middle eastern markets and sometimes when its on sale at the neighborhood grocery store (Publix). Would you mind sharing in what ways what I'm consuming is trash compared to what comes from small farms?
Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching
#147Earlier quoted context omitted.
What do you think their advantage comes from? Most regulatory compliance is a fixed cost. Amazon's lawyers get paid the same hourly rate to read the same regulations as yours, but they can amortize the cost over a billion customers. The more regulations there are, the larger the advantage to big corporations. Half their advantage comes from the complexity and stupidity of financial regulations that make it so small b…
> What do you think their advantage comes from? Scale. This applies to processing regulation and also to purchasing power, organizational ability and much else besides. > Half their advantage comes from the complexity and stupidity of financial regulations No doubt that excessive regulation is a burden and regulatory capture is a thing. "Half their advantage" overlooks all of their other advantages. The fact is, regu…
It's also a cumulative problem. If you have the existing level of regulation, you have Amazon and Walmart. At a lower level of regulation there might be ten of them instead of two. But wait, then they each have less scale which makes it easier for smaller competitors to enter and that turns it into twenty or fifty.
There are also ways to counter non-regulatory scale, like specialization. Newegg competes successfully with Amazon because they focus on electronics. Then they buy enough electronics to have scale in electronics, even if they can't match Amazon's scale in diapers or ice melt.
And some scale problems are intractable but they're also separable. If you wanted to compete with Amazon and FedEx and UPS didn't exist, you'd be screwed. No way you have enough scale to do that on your own, selling your printer toner refills or whatever. But they do exist. Which allows competition for the verticals that don't need that amount of scale to be viable.
Moreover, scale has limits. Maybe you need to move ten thousand units a month to be viable in a particular market, and that takes at least ten employees. You can't do it in your garage. But that doesn't mean you have to be the size of Amazon either. And this threshold is different in every market. The higher regulatory burdens are, the more markets go on the wrong side of the line.
The problem with regulatory costs is that they tend to be generic. You're stuck with every payments regulation, labor regulation, every jurisdiction's unique tax laws, regardless of what you're selling. Specialization doesn't get you out of most of them. And they can accumulate without bound. Add excessive regulatory burdens on top of all the other advantages to scale and you get what we've got, instead of some lesser scale advantage with greater competition.
> The fact is, regulation is hard to get right.
It's all cost benefit analysis.
There are regulations that cost a negligible amount of money and have an enormous benefit. Those aren't the ones that meaningfully impair competition, because they cost a negligible amount of money and if we only had the ones with an enormous benefit then the cumulative effect would still be small.
We also have some regulations with a large cost and a modest benefit. Those are hot garbage, but they're on page 7357 of a ten thousand page bill that nobody read before passing and the businesses they destroyed are already bankrupt instead of lobbying to have it repealed.
But the biggest problem is the numerous, numerous regulations with a small cost and a small benefit. Because those aren't worth it. Breakeven on the regulation, if you can even do the accounting that carefully, is still a net negative because of the effect on competition.
So we should keep the ones in the first category. A small cost with a large benefit. And get rid of all the others.
Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching
#148Earlier quoted context omitted.
Getting people drug addicted removes potential help and illegal immigration drives down prices
If illegal immigration was driving the cost of help down, would they be complaining of a lack of laborers to hire? Someone must be hiring all of these illegal immigrants if their presence is suppressing wages in an industry…
Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching
#149Earlier quoted context omitted.
I highly recommend you to visit third world countries and sample food from there. I grew up in Burma and have been living in the US for almost 20 years. Every time I went back to Burma, I buy milk, egg and chicken from local markets. I boil the milk and egg, and make curry out of the chicken. The milk is super creamy and if you boil it for 2-3 times, you get like 1-cm creamy foam on top. I tried the same with Costco…
> The milk is super creamy and if you boil it for 2-3 times, you get like 1-cm creamy foam on top. I tried the same with Costco whole milk, and didn't get as much cream/richness. That's probably because supermarket milk is typically homogenised, meaning it's been put through a very narrow funnel with great force until the fat globules break and become more evenly distributed throughout the milk. That's why supermarke…
brands like Straus are generally available on the west coast, not sure about other regions
Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
Cartels violate antitrust laws. Labor unions in particular have an antitrust exception. But both of them are solving the problem from the wrong end. The question isn't how to negotiate with an existing monopolist that can screw you over with monopoly power, it's how to break their monopoly. "Get your own monopoly" not only doesn't fix it, it just makes it worse for everybody else. Congratulations, humans who eat food…
That's a duopoly, which is hopefully better than a monopoly. It forces competition and will at least keep the independent people solvent. Hell, you can structure it where the processing fee is set and the producers set their own sale prices. What other options. Is there for beef production?
Don't form a new cartel, break up the old monopoly.