High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching • Hacker News Board

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#61

Post by jdavis703 » Mon, Jan 03, 2022, 9:19 PM UTC

nickstinemates wrote: post #58

I love raising my own meat, and look forward to being 100% self-sustainable for all meat consumption across hunting, fishing, and livestock for a family of 5. Meat processing and butchery is very rewarding. Turning a whole pig into a mix of charcuterie, roasts, and sausage doesn't take a lot of time and is completely worth it. This is the opposite of cheap, and is not a 'profitable' endeavor by any means. Buying from…

This all sounds pretty labor intensive to me. About how many hours per year do you think goes in to this? Like is this something that could be a weekend hobby? Or does it require more substantial lifestyle change?

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#62

Post by evv555 » Mon, Jan 03, 2022, 9:20 PM UTC

MomoXenosaga wrote: post #16

voakbasda wrote: post #10

As a small farmer, I can tell you: independent small-scale farming is not profitable in any meaningful manner. Government is actively killing it, by giving away every possible concession to Big Ag. The food in stores is pretty much all garbage compared to food raised on small farms. It sickens me to see things go this way, but this is the reality that we have created.

The food in stores is cheap. And that matters to consumers more than whatever alleged quality small-time farmers can produce (was food actually better a hundred years ago? Doubt).

Apparently not. Meat prices are going up because of collusion by corporate meat packers not because the price of meat is going up.

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#63

Post by Negitivefrags » Mon, Jan 03, 2022, 9:20 PM UTC

beebmam wrote: post #47

HPsquared wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have the state pay everyone's wages and (eventually, with wealth tax) own all major industries... this is supposed to reduce consolidation how?

What do you think reduces consolidation? Genuinely curious. I think there are other strategies that will work, but taxation is extremely effective at reducing variance of wealth distribution.

What reduces consolidation ultimately is a real recession. Not these fake ones we have had in recent times which get propped up with QE, but a real recession. The type that kills big companies.

Then in the ashes you will get a verdant crop of new companies started by fresh people and a new period of massive growth with follow.

Might not be a cost that people actually want to pay though.

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#64

Post by ratsmack » Mon, Jan 03, 2022, 9:20 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #39

xu3u32 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am someone who usually gets their beef from costco, small middle eastern markets and sometimes when its on sale at the neighborhood grocery store (Publix). Would you mind sharing in what ways what I'm consuming is trash compared to what comes from small farms?

I buy grass-fed beef from my neighbor. There's no difference as far as I can see. I like to support my neighbor, but there's no magic, no difference cooking, no startling color-change tricks as reported elsewhere in this thread.

That may be because many "grass-fed" farmers do a 120 day corn finish which adds weight quickly. This makes the beef more like what is produces commercially.

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#65

Post by AnthonyMouse » Mon, Jan 03, 2022, 9:22 PM UTC

beebmam wrote: post #60

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Easy enough to solve: tax wealth and redistribute it with a UBI. These are extremely independent problems. The problem with concentration isn't taxes, it's a regulatory environment that promotes concentration. You take money from Bezos, it doesn't change the size of Amazon. A UBI would help some by making it easier to start a small business, but unless you address the underlying regulatory problems that give every…

Quoted post unavailable.

What do you think their advantage comes from? Most regulatory compliance is a fixed cost. Amazon's lawyers get paid the same hourly rate to read the same regulations as yours, but they can amortize the cost over a billion customers. The more regulations there are, the larger the advantage to big corporations.

Half their advantage comes from the complexity and stupidity of financial regulations that make it so small businesses have to subject themselves to the caprice of PayPal et al to accept payment for anything, when PayPal's business model is screwing over small businesses. The biggest reason third parties sell on Amazon is so they can use Amazon as a payment service.

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#66

Post by jdavis703 » Mon, Jan 03, 2022, 9:23 PM UTC

mitchell_h wrote: post #55

voakbasda wrote: post #10

As a small farmer, I can tell you: independent small-scale farming is not profitable in any meaningful manner. Government is actively killing it, by giving away every possible concession to Big Ag. The food in stores is pretty much all garbage compared to food raised on small farms. It sickens me to see things go this way, but this is the reality that we have created.

fellow small farmer(live stock only) with a day gig. The only benefit to having a small farm these days is it provides a tax shelter, and an enjoyable(yet difficult) hobby. Even if you outright own the land, by the time you figure in maintenance and equipment on any cattle farm under 500-1000 head of cattle you simply can't turn a profit in a meaningful way. What you CAN do is use it as a tax shelter where you sorta…

Why is all the pasture raised, permaculture, organic blah blah stuff all so expensive if it’s not profitable? If I’m paying $12 for a dozen eggs when I can get non-sustainable, conventionally raised eggs from some megacorp for $3 then where is all the money going? Any consumer paying $12 for eggs certainly wouldn’t mind $13, which could then be profit.

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#67

Post by bee_rider » Mon, Jan 03, 2022, 9:23 PM UTC

voakbasda wrote: post #27

AndrewUnmuted wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's true; it is. This year I bought half of a red angus cow straight from the farm. It turns red when it gets cooked. It's a sight to behold. The stuff you buy at the costco has been frozen and unfrozen at least twice before you buy it. That's already a meaningful difference. They clearly treat it with some sort of coloring agent. In the 30 years I have cooked meat, nothing can prepare you for real beef that comes s…

You are absolutely correct. It all starts with better nutrition. CAFO cows that end up at the supermarket are fed low-quality grains and feedstocks, rather than grass that they were evolved to eat. The difference between grain and grass fed beef is amazing. USDA processing is a complete farce. I can only sell locally, because I am not willing to send my animals to such facilities. Instead, I can only sell here in my…

Any thoughts on Mobile Slaughter Units?

Your focus on being less cruel to your cows is pretty admirable, but I don't really see how average consumers could evaluate whether their local farm is:

* Putting in the sort of extra effort that you are

* Following safety protocols more generally

I dunno. I'm not super attached to meat, so I'd probably quit eating it before putting in the effort to eat it ethically. Actually when I put it that way, I should probably quit it...

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#68

Post by poulsbohemian » Mon, Jan 03, 2022, 9:24 PM UTC

voakbasda wrote: post #10

As a small farmer, I can tell you: independent small-scale farming is not profitable in any meaningful manner. Government is actively killing it, by giving away every possible concession to Big Ag. The food in stores is pretty much all garbage compared to food raised on small farms. It sickens me to see things go this way, but this is the reality that we have created.

Can you talk more about this? As a consumer I generally see these two as almost mutually exclusive. What I mean is - while I know there is rent seeking on the part of Big AG, as a consumer I'm under the impression there are plenty of sectors where small-scale producers can be profitable. Meat comes to mind, as I buy directly from ranchers I know personally. Small-scale creameries have definitely been squeezed by rules written by Big AG, but then again some of those have had legitimacy IE: healthy and safety.

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#69

Post by poulsbohemian » Mon, Jan 03, 2022, 9:31 PM UTC

ratsmack wrote: post #64

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I buy grass-fed beef from my neighbor. There's no difference as far as I can see. I like to support my neighbor, but there's no magic, no difference cooking, no startling color-change tricks as reported elsewhere in this thread.

That may be because many "grass-fed" farmers do a 120 day corn finish which adds weight quickly. This makes the beef more like what is produces commercially.

The rancher I buy beef from is a multi-generation family friend. I can tell the years he's finished on grain vs. the years he hasn't. Same Angus beef on the same grass fields, drinking the same mountain spring water, same mobile kill operation. But, some years it's obvious in the taste and texture he has mixed in corn / grains into the diet.

To the other poster asking about mobile kill operations - it's less stress on the animals, and that ultimately does yield a better product. So whether you view it through the lens of tasty meat or animal welfare, in both cases it's a win.

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#70

Post by CreepGin » Mon, Jan 03, 2022, 9:31 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #39

xu3u32 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am someone who usually gets their beef from costco, small middle eastern markets and sometimes when its on sale at the neighborhood grocery store (Publix). Would you mind sharing in what ways what I'm consuming is trash compared to what comes from small farms?

I buy grass-fed beef from my neighbor. There's no difference as far as I can see. I like to support my neighbor, but there's no magic, no difference cooking, no startling color-change tricks as reported elsewhere in this thread.

We have opposite experiences with pork and poultry. The meat we get from local homesteads are noticeably way better than store bought. Maybe beef is a different story. I don't know...

During 2020 summer, we raised 4 peking ducks in our backyard. We gifted some of the processed meat to extended family members. And to this day, they still can't stop talking about how good the meat were.