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High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

mattstoller.substack.com

81–90 of 259 posts

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#81
post #53
post #19

Breaking Points recently did a segment on this, if you're into this format of presentation: - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3v7G9EDovQ

I can't take Breaking Points seriously. It's basically a mainstream media dunkfest that rides the line of being right-wing full blown crazy - which I suspect is a good chuck of their audience.

Not a fan of the format but I do enjoy hearing about things that aren't covered or highlighted in the elite corporate press. Not everything has to be left vs right.

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

fellow small farmer(live stock only) with a day gig. The only benefit to having a small farm these days is it provides a tax shelter, and an enjoyable(yet difficult) hobby. Even if you outright own the land, by the time you figure in maintenance and equipment on any cattle farm under 500-1000 head of cattle you simply can't turn a profit in a meaningful way. What you CAN do is use it as a tax shelter where you sorta…

Why is all the pasture raised, permaculture, organic blah blah stuff all so expensive if it’s not profitable? If I’m paying $12 for a dozen eggs when I can get non-sustainable, conventionally raised eggs from some megacorp for $3 then where is all the money going? Any consumer paying $12 for eggs certainly wouldn’t mind $13, which could then be profit.

$12 dollars for 12 eggs? The goose is dead but the hen is still going strong.

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#83
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This process is intrinsic to capitalism, though. Every company has to get bigger by swallowing others, or instead be swallowed by another company that does it. The board game "Monopoly" is a pretty good simplified simulation of the system's structures and operation. Fun for all in the early stages, not so much in the end game.

I have gripes with capitalism, but this isn't one. Capitalism essentially allocates resources to where they are most efficient (although IMHO not as purely as most Austrian economists would argue, because people aren't all that rational and information asymmetry makes rationality impossible in many other cases). Sometimes (ok often) that goes to huge megacorps due to economies of scale, but in return you take on mass…

> Monopoly is a vastly over simplified model that doesn't consider much of modern economics. Interestingly, it was actually invented to demonstrate to people how evil capitalism is[2].

Close. Monopoly was created by Lizzie Magie, a Georgist, and its purpose was to demonstrate how evil land ownership by monopolies/rent seekers is and to advocate for a Land Value Tax [1]. Many of the forces you describe that apply to other areas in economics do not apply to land. You cannot create new land, after all.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly_(game)#Early_history

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct, that is what a cartel is for

Isn’t a cartel more about illicit collusion (often outright illegal) rather than forming a public organisation to act collectively?

Cartels violate antitrust laws. Labor unions in particular have an antitrust exception. But both of them are solving the problem from the wrong end.

The question isn't how to negotiate with an existing monopolist that can screw you over with monopoly power, it's how to break their monopoly. "Get your own monopoly" not only doesn't fix it, it just makes it worse for everybody else. Congratulations, humans who eat food, there are now two monopolies in your supply chain.

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#85
post #53
post #19

Breaking Points recently did a segment on this, if you're into this format of presentation: - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3v7G9EDovQ

I can't take Breaking Points seriously. It's basically a mainstream media dunkfest that rides the line of being right-wing full blown crazy - which I suspect is a good chuck of their audience.

I've seen several of their videos and I don't think this is correct (well the msm dunk fest is, but I'm fine with that). Do you have any examples of right wing crazy?

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#86
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not GP but how'd you find the land? I'm from Texas (grew up but haven't lived as an adult) and was wondering how to find 1-2 acres

I went through a half dozen real estate agents. After several months and false starts, I found a real estate agent who was close to retiring, loved driving far, and liked looking at rural properties. During the week she'd send property listings to me and I'd yay/nay them. Then on the weekend we'd drive around and see three or four of them -- literally all-day affairs on Saturdays and half-days on Sundays. That went o…

AT&T fiber in a rural area? What's the closest major city?

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#87

I have in-laws in the independent ranching industry and the lack of slaughter house/packer capacity is a real problem. Around here at least supply and demand is working as there is a company trying to open up a new plant, but it is taking years to get past NIMBYism and environmental reviews. I wonder if an alternative model is to look into public/private partnerships where the government establishes the land and perm…

Do you happen to know the approximate location?

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#88

As a small farmer, I can tell you: independent small-scale farming is not profitable in any meaningful manner. Government is actively killing it, by giving away every possible concession to Big Ag. The food in stores is pretty much all garbage compared to food raised on small farms. It sickens me to see things go this way, but this is the reality that we have created.

The food in stores is cheap. And that matters to consumers more than whatever alleged quality small-time farmers can produce (was food actually better a hundred years ago? Doubt).

I highly recommend you to visit third world countries and sample food from there. I grew up in Burma and have been living in the US for almost 20 years. Every time I went back to Burma, I buy milk, egg and chicken from local markets. I boil the milk and egg, and make curry out of the chicken. The milk is super creamy and if you boil it for 2-3 times, you get like 1-cm creamy foam on top. I tried the same with Costco whole milk, and didn't get as much cream/richness. The chickens are usually smaller, but they don't have "fishy" (for the lack of better way to describe it; but you can notice if you have lived in Burma for a while and came back to the US to eat factory-farmed chicken) smell before/after cooking. The chicken bone is a bit thicker and there is more bone marrow (I like chewing on bones and eating the marrow). Maybe it's the breed difference, but certainly there's no smell.

I'd also recommend you to try different kinds of fresh water fish that are available in places like Burma and Thailand. These fish are more and more difficult (expensive) to buy thanks to overfishing, but the variety and the flavor will just amazes you.

In general, I believe that factory farming has reduced the variety of available food in the US. Whether that impacts the long term health/flavor of the food is something we probably should conduct a long-term scientific study to confirm.

My wife and mom (from the same country) both told me that they cannot eat the chicken from US markets because of the smell, and it took me a while (15 years) to get that distinct scent that they mention and once I starts cooking more and more, I learned to distinguish that myself.

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I buy grass-fed beef from my neighbor. There's no difference as far as I can see. I like to support my neighbor, but there's no magic, no difference cooking, no startling color-change tricks as reported elsewhere in this thread.

We have opposite experiences with pork and poultry. The meat we get from local homesteads are noticeably way better than store bought. Maybe beef is a different story. I don't know... During 2020 summer, we raised 4 peking ducks in our backyard. We gifted some of the processed meat to extended family members. And to this day, they still can't stop talking about how good the meat were.

This sounds like how I always “reminisce” with old associates about how good they were when they or we did X. Except you’re even more related to these people and so the vested interest in making you feel like they think you’re a great dude is even more entrained.

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#90
post #37

This is happening to every industry. There is an obvious consolidation and massive wealth transfer still ongoing. Sickening

This process is intrinsic to capitalism, though. Every company has to get bigger by swallowing others, or instead be swallowed by another company that does it. The board game "Monopoly" is a pretty good simplified simulation of the system's structures and operation. Fun for all in the early stages, not so much in the end game.

Remember when ma bell was split up? Now there's a strong distaste for breaking up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_United_States_antit... - The FTC seems to prefer to prevent monopolies by considering and blocking acquisitions... but this clearly has blind spots.

Like all economic systems, a strong and independent state/gov't is required to force-fix issues that don't make financial sense to fix (ex. FDA creation after The Jungle). I think our current system is suffering from regulatory capture, and I don't see a way to resolve this kind of near-corruption. Corporatism will continue until the system is no longer sustainable, which likely will never happen (within our lifetimes).

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