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Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

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Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#141

Post by dkarras »

withinboredom wrote: post #119
dkarras wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The nuance with "public domain sheet music" is that while the instructions of how to play that music is public domain, the recorded performance of such music is not. So when you play moonlight sonata, you have the copyright to that particular performance (recording) and someone else cannot use that without permission. It is somewhat harder to distinguish between recordings of thousands of performances of the same mus…

This particular case is about a copyrighted "melody" and not the performance. Sheet music would cover this.

The same principle applies though: Youtube has no say in deciding what is copyrighted or not. They don't want to have a say in it themselves. Someone, somewhere, claims that they own the copyright to x and y. Youtube can't and won't decide if that is truthful or not. Almost a decade ago, youtube gave the keys to claims to people to remove themselves from the equation. "Someone says they own this stuff so they took it down. Sort it out between yourselves."

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#142

Post by BlueTemplar »

qayxc wrote: post #117
opan wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the centralization plus trusting a company is the issue, not a lack of cost meaning we aren't deserving of a good experience. Look at Peertube or other free as in freedom options.

> I think the centralization plus trusting a company is the issue, I think that's not the issue at all. The problem is simply scale. Currently, about 5000 videos are uploaded to YT every minute . If just 0.1% of them have any potential copyright issues, that's 5 potentially complex cases per minute or 7200 per day. No amount of human review will be able to decide this in a timely manner. The piano teacher's case is j…

It is because people are routinely violating copyright in much larger amounts, yet nobody is bothering to go after them. Compare with the way the laws about audio and video cassettes ended up.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#143

Post by Guest42 »

teachingassist wrote: post #106
ozim wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are disputes over "white noise" videos so it is already as bad as it gets.

Given that white noise is random, a recorded copy of white noise is its own perfect watermark.

Does it depend on seeding that would eventually have tendencies for replication? Or could that be pushed out until practically forever?

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#144

Post by BlueTemplar »

igarcia wrote: post #91
Tepix wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reasons why ppl go to YT are monetization and visibility.

She mentioned that she's not making much money from it. People are migrating from this model into sponsorship such as patreon, with followers chipping in for their favourite creators.

Patreon is also problematic due to centralization.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#145

Post by rndgermandude »

Iv wrote: post #101
qwertox wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Actually Google is on the side of calling all of this retarded. Google has the means to make this stop.

How so?

For starters, they should actually follow the DMCA. The DMCA gives affected people a defined way to counter-notice, and then the entity who filed the initial DMCA notice can either sue within 14 days or the content gets restored.

Instead Google chose to evaluate "disputes" themselves, with algorithms and "AI", and reject disputes. Rejecting counter-notices is absolutely NOT something the DMCA mandates or even suggests. Moreover Youtube essentially used to allow (probably still does) alleged rights owners to reject disputes in essentially one click, while the DMCA would require them to bring a law suit. Some copyright owners therefore created bots doing the clicking for them.

They could also be more lenient to "established" players as a first step, especially when it comes to counter-notices/disputes. Factor in previous history google has with an alleged infringer (alleged by their own algorithm by the way, not even by a third party) when considering a dispute, like account age, channel age, number of previous videos without problems, "we do know the customer" e.g. to pay out ad money, etc. And then maybe not outright reject it, but leave it to the alleged copyright owner to file a law suit (as the DMCA states) or at least refer it to actual human beings for further evaluation.

Of course, Google could hire people to check up on their own algorithms and decide on disputes instead of machines. Youtube had $6 BILLION in ad revenue in the last quarter (not year), so they could certainly afford to hire some people. In the end it might even be a profitable investment, as fewer good content is pruned from Youtube for wrong copyright issues, leading to more ad revenue.

Youtube right now seems pretty content with their quasi-monopoly, to their own detriment in my opinion. As unlikely as it may seem that people will create competitors, it can happen, ask mighty MySpace about it.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#146

Post by ratww »

eru wrote: post #126
guggle wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Upload videos to her own website. Problem solved.

Then you get sued instead of youtube.

I don't think Beethoven is willing to sue her. His lawyers will probably remind him that he's been dead for a while.

What happened here is a problem unique to Youtube. Nobody will get sued for the same reasons she's getting taken down. For other reasons? Sure, but that's also can happen in Youtube.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#147

Post by dredmorbius »

teachingassist wrote: post #106
ozim wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are disputes over "white noise" videos so it is already as bad as it gets.

Given that white noise is random, a recorded copy of white noise is its own perfect watermark.

Depends on how lossy the compression is. Your watermark becomes compression artefacts instead.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#148

Post by LudwigNagasena »

sofixa wrote: post #96
LudwigNagasena wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the laws are so harsh. It seems like YouTube caved in to the music industry interests so that popular artists continue to premiere their videos on YouTube.

And otherwise they'd get sued for hosting copyrighted content, which will result in hefty fines and jail( didn't the US want to get Kim Dotcom from NZ precisely for that?)

They won’t get sued if they follow the DMCA process which is very different from what they are doing.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#149

Post by MereInterest »

sofixa wrote: post #96
LudwigNagasena wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the laws are so harsh. It seems like YouTube caved in to the music industry interests so that popular artists continue to premiere their videos on YouTube.

And otherwise they'd get sued for hosting copyrighted content, which will result in hefty fines and jail( didn't the US want to get Kim Dotcom from NZ precisely for that?)

So long as they respond to actual DMCA reports, no. ContentID goes far, far beyond what is required by the DMCA to have safe harbor.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#150

Post by yesenadam »

jeffwass wrote: post #35
jeffwass wrote: post #10

Summary for those that don’t want to watch the video : - Pianist creates YouTube video demonstrating how to play Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata - part of this video includes her playing Moonlight Sonata (of course) - YouTube has a new ‘feature’ that scans submitted videos prior to publication to identify potentially copyrighted material - her video is found to include copyrighted material. She is certain this is a mist…

I sympathise with her. I had a copyright claim on one of my YouTube videos (I’m totally small potatoes, handful of vids with dozens of views). I made a video of myself playing my own unique interpretation of The Safety Dance by Men Without Hats on piano. https://youtu.be/ZNfMZ6g9YWo I got a copyright violation notice shortly after posting it, by some random Latin American music company. It wasn’t clear if it was legi…

Not an expert, but I've been learning a lil about this lately. Royalties for performances of someone else's song are paid to the writers of the words and the music. The melody and words can be copyrighted, not the chords or style. So you can use the chords of an existing song and give it new melody and words, and it is your own song. Style has nothing to do it.

I love this quote from the classic The Manual: How To Have A Number 1 The Easy Way by KLF:

...the copyright laws that have grown over the past one hundred years have all been developed by whites of European descent and these laws state that fifty per cent of the copyright of any song should be for the lyrics, the other fifty per cent for the top line (sung) melody; groove doesn’t even get a look in. If the copyright laws had been in the hands of blacks of African descent, at least eighty per cent would have gone to the creators of the groove, the remainder split between the lyrics and the melody. If perchance you are reading this and you are both black and a lawyer, make a name for yourself. Right the wrongs.

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