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'Do Not Split': A Hong Kong protest film [video]

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Re: 'Do Not Split': A Hong Kong protest film [video]

#141

Post by toiletfuneral »

gonehome wrote: post #132
scotty79 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fragility of the CPC and its fear in being portrayed in any negative light knows no limits. That's because they have single party system. Eventually they'll figure out that splitting into two parties and exchanging highest power between the two every few years while still colectively controlling everything of value is way more resilient system. Then they will be able to let themselves to be hated because half o…

[flagged]

which party do I vote for if I want to stop US imperialism? which party do I vote for if I want MFA? Its not the Republicans, and its definitely not the Democrats.

Its no conspiracy theory to say the duopoly shuts down a lot of issues from being ever being addressed

Re: 'Do Not Split': A Hong Kong protest film [video]

#142

Post by scotty79 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #126
scotty79 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fragility of the CPC and its fear in being portrayed in any negative light knows no limits. That's because they have single party system. Eventually they'll figure out that splitting into two parties and exchanging highest power between the two every few years while still colectively controlling everything of value is way more resilient system. Then they will be able to let themselves to be hated because half o…

> they'll figure out that splitting into two parties and exchanging highest power between the two every few years while still colectively controlling everything of value is way more resilient system This requires rule of law to function. Otherwise, one set of elites won't trust handing power to the other. The breathless levels of corruption at the top of the CCP would also have to go, which is a difficult transition…

Deep informal connections between both "sides" might substitute rule of law to some degree.

Re: 'Do Not Split': A Hong Kong protest film [video]

#143

Post by scotty79 »

beckman466 wrote: post #138
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they'll figure out that splitting into two parties and exchanging highest power between the two every few years while still colectively controlling everything of value is way more resilient system This requires rule of law to function. Otherwise, one set of elites won't trust handing power to the other. The breathless levels of corruption at the top of the CCP would also have to go, which is a difficult transition…

They were being ironic.

Not really. I believe that's the future of China. I don't think it'll come any time soon though.

Re: 'Do Not Split': A Hong Kong protest film [video]

#144

Post by nafizh »

There is no doubt in my mind that Taiwan is the next target unless another axis of power comes to its aid. It's only a matter of time and the success in HK would have only bolstered CCP's conviction. Because China is hosting the winter Olympics, I don't think they will do anything of this scale before that.

Re: 'Do Not Split': A Hong Kong protest film [video]

#145

Post by dnautics »

ghostwriter wrote: post #55
ipnon wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding arrest for accessing online information, I have become fascinated lately with the concept of legal warfare. It is the use of legal constructions to align other governments or subordinate bureaucracies to your strategic goals. For example, when Russia invaded Ukraine, they used the pretext that only volunteers from Russia were traveling to Ukraine to support a legal separatist movement. Now none of these cla…

Not taking a side here, just pointing out the fact that the tactic was known and used well before the Crimean events: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overthrow_of_the_Hawaiian_King... The current difference is that now it's happenning during a live broadcast, and the actions are being tried to be justified (as "justice") through existing legal frameworks. That's one of the ways Empires grow their periphery regions. Ano…

> The current difference

Just as a point of comparison (not justifying russia or the US), the region of donetsk (and crimea) was supermajority ethnically russian, and by the time the US overthrew the hawaiian kingdom, ethnic hawaiians were a minority within the (mostly imported) population, so in the case of both russia and the US's actions the majority of local populace gained political power in the aftermath of the takeovers:

https://www.hawaiiankingdom.org/info-census1890.shtml

By comparison if you consider HKers ethnically distinct from mainland chinese (on cultural bases), the situation is dramatically different.

Re: 'Do Not Split': A Hong Kong protest film [video]

#146

Post by FpUser »

tablespoon wrote: post #131
justicezyx wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To curb this type of simplistic view on Sino-US relationship, and give both sides some light equally: > free and fair democratic election Depending on your sources, this can be a questionable statement. > freedom from the Chinese Government's dictatorial rule. Depending on your sources, this can be an equally questionable statement. Case in point: most of Chinese mainlander call CCP's rule as people's democracy. And…

That kind of comparison relies on leaving the definitions of important concepts undefined. For instance the word "democracy" in "CCP's rule as people's democracy" and "free and fair democratic election" is being used to refer to incompatible things. To an American's ear, the CCP's use is an Orwellian inversion akin to "Freedom is Slavery."

"To an American's ear, the CCP's use is an Orwellian inversion akin to "Freedom is Slavery"

Frankly speaking the US is not the only country in the world and in this context why would other countries give a f..k about how it sounds to America's ear. They could be backwards in relation to western view on human rights but you can't really tell independent country how they do their things.

Re: 'Do Not Split': A Hong Kong protest film [video]

#147

Post by JumpCrisscross »

scotty79 wrote: post #142
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they'll figure out that splitting into two parties and exchanging highest power between the two every few years while still colectively controlling everything of value is way more resilient system This requires rule of law to function. Otherwise, one set of elites won't trust handing power to the other. The breathless levels of corruption at the top of the CCP would also have to go, which is a difficult transition…

Deep informal connections between both "sides" might substitute rule of law to some degree.

> Deep informal connections between both "sides" might substitute rule of law to some degree

It's a poor substitute. To the point that I think single-party rule may be preferable. Informal power sharing arrangements almost deterministically go to shit after a single generation. They also calcify the elites' ranks.

Re: 'Do Not Split': A Hong Kong protest film [video]

#148

Post by wumaodang »

nafizh wrote: post #144

There is no doubt in my mind that Taiwan is the next target unless another axis of power comes to its aid. It's only a matter of time and the success in HK would have only bolstered CCP's conviction. Because China is hosting the winter Olympics, I don't think they will do anything of this scale before that.

There are certainly a lot of commentators predicting that some kind of military conflict will happen over Taiwan in the next decade.

If it happens, it'll be the closest we get to World War III, so hopefully cooler heads will prevail.

Re: 'Do Not Split': A Hong Kong protest film [video]

#149

Post by scotty79 »

gonehome wrote: post #132
scotty79 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fragility of the CPC and its fear in being portrayed in any negative light knows no limits. That's because they have single party system. Eventually they'll figure out that splitting into two parties and exchanging highest power between the two every few years while still colectively controlling everything of value is way more resilient system. Then they will be able to let themselves to be hated because half o…

[flagged]

It's not a criticism, but a praise. Political stabilitiy is of immense value to everybody. US is doing it correctly as the track record shows. No revolutions while other countries had multiple in the same timespan.

I might sound a bit cynical but I prefer to think about this as non-idealistic. Because reality very rarely seems to align with any sort of idealism for me.

Re: 'Do Not Split': A Hong Kong protest film [video]

#150

Post by pessimizer »

chronicsunshine wrote: post #57
MsMowz wrote: post #44

I'll try to strictly source my remarks and refrain from commenting on the political content of the HK demonstrations to keep this purely factual, as I think this could be a rather controversial thread; however, it's interesting how different the reception to these demonstrations is to the reception to the US Capitol riots and the BLM demonstrations of last year. Hong Kong demonstrators have stormed government buildin…

Equating the two is ridiculous. The Capitol Riots were an attempt to overturn a free and fair democratic election in favor of the rioters preferred candidate. The HK protests are in relation to freedom from the Chinese Government's dictatorial rule. Democracy is what is most important in both of these situations. The Capitol Riots were anti democracy. The HK protests are pro democracy.

The classic these are "terrorists" and those are "freedom fighters" trope in real life.

At least refer to both of them as "riots" or both as "protests."

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