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Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

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Re: Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

#141

Post by umvi »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #12
rayiner wrote: post #2

As someone from a country that was formerly part of the British Empire, I am viewing the situation in Hong Kong with horror. There are many negative things about the British legacy, but they gave us a global language, institutions, law, and notions of personal and economic freedom. The idea of all that being eaten by China...

Might makes right, nothing we can do about it unless people are willing to die to protect them.

"Freedom isn't free"

Freedom is extremely expensive in terms of blood required to achieve it, so I'm always amazed at how easily people are convinced to give it up one inch at a time until it's all gone again.

Re: Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

#142

Post by supernova87a »

Not to make light of the offer (and I personally know people who may be affected), but why would someone from HK really want to move to the UK?

Cold weather, mediocre food, expensive prices, expensive housing, and an economy and system on the verge of entering a highly destabilized period.

That's an attractive offer?

Re: Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

#143

Post by 0d311 »

supernova87a wrote: post #142

Not to make light of the offer (and I personally know people who may be affected), but why would someone from HK really want to move to the UK? Cold weather, mediocre food, expensive prices, expensive housing, and an economy and system on the verge of entering a highly destabilized period. That's an attractive offer?

... compared to a authoritarian regime with literal concentration camps?

Re: Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

#144

Post by Waterfall »

supernova87a wrote: post #142

Not to make light of the offer (and I personally know people who may be affected), but why would someone from HK really want to move to the UK? Cold weather, mediocre food, expensive prices, expensive housing, and an economy and system on the verge of entering a highly destabilized period. That's an attractive offer?

A market for improvement in food and you think china is doing good? China is a literal welfare state that relies on the east of China. Most intake wealth while the East actually generates it, the Pearl River Delta is also where most of the economic progress occurs.

Re: Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

#145

Post by AngryData »

Renaud wrote: post #97
door99 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the last 40 years, while China lifted a billion people out of poverty, what evil did they commit that is even remotely comparable to what the US did in, say, Iraq?

China lifted a billion people out of poverty after putting them there in the first place. The various incarnations of the dictature that is the CCP have killed millions of its own people through labour camps and unchallenged economic policies that literally resulted in famines and poverty. But that's not the point. Comparing the evils that each country has done is a distraction from the current topic. It's not the US…

Did it really put them there in the first place? China was pretty dirt fucking poor beforehand, consisting mainly of subsidence farmers. Yeah their government was certainly a bunch of bastards, but they were already poor as fuck.

Re: Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

#146

Post by supernova87a »

0d311 wrote: post #143
supernova87a wrote: post #142

Not to make light of the offer (and I personally know people who may be affected), but why would someone from HK really want to move to the UK? Cold weather, mediocre food, expensive prices, expensive housing, and an economy and system on the verge of entering a highly destabilized period. That's an attractive offer?

... compared to a authoritarian regime with literal concentration camps?

That is not in HK, let's be clear with the facts. And neither is it an imminent possibility that people in HK are about to be subjected to that crime. Until China marches across the border.

Re: Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

#147

Post by Waterfall »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #125
rurounijones wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Jolly good show by the Brits to standby the people of Hong Kong Having a new source of immigration when you have just screwed yourself over in attracting European immigrantes due to Brexit is common sense rather than altruism.

> Having a new source of immigration when you have just screwed yourself over in attracting European immigrantes due to Brexit is common sense rather than altruism. Immigration is not actually something you need to have.

This is a fact that is hated by many people for some reason. There birthrate of Japan is considered low, but they are growing still and the homogeneous society has social harmony, with none of the ills of multiculturalism. It's a trade-off for immigration boosting economies in the short term they don't think is worth it.

Re: Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

#148

Post by twblalock »

Renaud wrote: post #117
Rapzid wrote: post #13

The Sino-British Joint Declaration was a mistake. What did they think would happen? If not now then what about in 2047?! Were they hoping that was enough time to warm the new generations to the idea of giving up their rights? There is no fixing this, but I appreciate the effort by the British. Many will not want to leave, understandably. But the threat of draining HK is an interesting sort of pressure to put on China…

Most people believe there was no choice. Most of the territory was on a lease that was expiring and would have legally returned to China in 1997, splitting the city in two. What the Brits should have done was to push reforms for democratic governance before they left. They could have allowed a fully democratic local government that would have survived the handover and been enshrined in the Basic Law. Instead, all pro…

They did make some effort, and some of what they put in place was dissolved fairly quickly. Ultimately, no matter what they did, reforms wouldn't have lasted.

Re: Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

#149

Post by AngryData »

mcswell wrote: post #112
rayiner wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They lifted people out of poverty by ditching an economic system that kept those people in poverty for decades.

I assume you're referring to ditching the communist system, right? which under Mao was responsible for 20-46 million deaths from starvation (that # is from wikipedia). Unfortunately, while they've ditched the economic part of communism, they've retained the dictatorial part, while moving towards the vision in 1984--a vision that seemed absurdly impractical when I read the book back in the 60s. But AI is now making it…

I fail to see how the "dictatorial part" by itself is communist. If you aren't economically communist, how can you be communist when communism is an economic system? It would be like claiming a country that got rid of investments and capital gains and private ownership of industry is still capitalist because it is a political republic, despite the fact that you can be capitalist under any political system.

Re: Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

#150

Post by [deleted] »

Rapzid wrote: post #13

The Sino-British Joint Declaration was a mistake. What did they think would happen? If not now then what about in 2047?! Were they hoping that was enough time to warm the new generations to the idea of giving up their rights? There is no fixing this, but I appreciate the effort by the British. Many will not want to leave, understandably. But the threat of draining HK is an interesting sort of pressure to put on China…

[deleted]
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