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How to Safely and Ethically Film Police Misconduct

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Re: How to Safely and Ethically Film Police Misconduct

#141

Post by xphilter »

sethammons wrote: post #116
microcolonel wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude, last night a federal officer was executed from a van. It wasn't in Minneapolis, but there's no reason to believe it couldn't be there. They gave an order: go inside while we're passing. It is a reasonable order for the few seconds or minutes it takes for the crowd to pass the neighbourhood. Remarkably, reasonable police orders apply to you, even if you are middle class and young.

That’s where you missed it: it is not reasonable to give unlawful orders, it is not reasonable to order someone on private property to go inside. They can request folks to go inside. They cannot order it until their powers are elevated by law. Might doesn’t make right.

I agree; but it is possible to have a lawful order to control someone on private property. An example was the Boston bombing manhunt where police were doing door to door searches because there was a specific, articulated threat in a defined geographic area (note, I don’t know that’s the real legal test, but I’m sure it considers factors like that).

Re: How to Safely and Ethically Film Police Misconduct

#142

Post by rayiner »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #86
rayiner wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's always ethical to film police misconduct, in fact what's unethical is that they're not already filming themselves The issue is filming what else might be going on around, which may be sensitive.

In general, if you are able to film police misconduct, you are in the public sphere. If the stuff going an around them is sensitive, the ethical thing to do isn't to abstain from filming, but to be careful who you share the video with.

As explained in the article, “filming ethically” might mean, for example, keeping the faces of bystanders out of the shot and things like that. You’re attacking a straw man.

Re: How to Safely and Ethically Film Police Misconduct

#143

Post by collyw »

phalangion wrote: post #31
jagged-chisel wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> shooting civilians with paint canisters on their own property Even if it weren't legal to be outside on your own property from 8p-6a, this isn't proper enforcement of the law.

That's because the National Guard isn't law enforcement.

What is the National Guard? Voluntary policing of some sort?

Re: How to Safely and Ethically Film Police Misconduct

#144

Post by JamesBarney »

ficklepickle wrote: post #119
rayiner wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason why it’s particularly bad in the US is that we’ve got insanely high levels of violent and organized crime. Baltimore, where I used to live, the homicide rate per 100,000 people is 30-50 times higher than in say Berlin, Madrid, London, etc. It’s almost double the rate of Bogota. That creates a police force that treats policing like its war, and public systems that give wide latitude to errors or misconduct,…

Cause or effect? I would argue that the warrior cop mentality escalates violence. That style of police training was banned by the mayor in Minneapolis, yet it continues to be taught and implemented. You have a very sick society and until you realize it is not all the fault of one group it will persist.

That more aggressive policing causes an order of magnitude more crime seems like a theory that doesn't pass the smell test to me.

Is there a good reason to believe that it's true?

Re: How to Safely and Ethically Film Police Misconduct

#145

Post by bsanr2 »

germinalphrase wrote: post #113
dessant wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't even need to leave your porch to get shot. Police and National Guard are patrolling neighborhoods and shooting civilians with paint canisters on their own property in Minneapolis. In one case they yelled "Light 'em up!" before starting to shoot [1] with ammunition that could blind people. It's legal to be outside your house during the curfew in Minneapolis [2]. > Can I be outside my house (on my property) a…

I’m a local. Here’s some additional context: “Follow up on video of people getting rubber bullets shot at them in their doorway from a source that was there. This was personally texted to me. Source is a teacher that works at my elementary school. Here’s what was posted. ‘That is my blue house across the street. Apparently this video has gone viral. What they didn’t show was the 20- 30 minutes of the rioters that sur…

This doesn't pass the sniff test. If they were rioters, they would likely not be rioting on their own porch. Hence, ordering them to go inside would mean breaking into someone else's house. On the other hand, if they're legitimately on their own proerty, and if they're not being disorderly, then what is the rationale for that use of force?

I hate to say it, but I'm doubting the veracity of this account. There's nothing in the video - trash or debris from a large crowd, in particular - to indicate that the area they were in, specifically, was in need of such force. And, again, the curfew did not forbid being outside on one's own property.

If we're going to second-guess what we see with our own eyes - that these people were shot at by police without provocation - it's perfectly reasonable to then continue to drill down on what happened; question accounts, question logic. Or, we could employ Occam's Razor.

Anyway, as a practical matter we should also be asking for the RUF that these police were operating under. That would clear up a lot.

Re: How to Safely and Ethically Film Police Misconduct

#146

Post by drdeadringer »

I recently found out about an app from the ACLU specifically for recording//reporting (abusive) police activities.

The app itself, at least the California version, has a section regarding one's rights and safety whilst filming police.

https://www.aclu.org/issues/criminal-law-reform/reforming-po...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACLU_Mobile_Justice

Re: How to Safely and Ethically Film Police Misconduct

#147

Post by balfirevic »

dennis_jeeves wrote: post #134
StellarTabi wrote: post #11

It's always ethical to film police misconduct, in fact what's unethical is that they're not already filming themselves. Safety is important, protesters (and even journalists...) have been livestreaming themselves innocently doing nothing (in contrast to other media's hyper-focusing on "looting") then getting shot with rubber bullets. One of them reportedly has permanent blindness in the left eye as a result. Police b…

>It's always ethical to film police misconduct, in fact what's unethical is that they're not already filming themselves. Excellent comment. But generally speaking people deserve the police they get, just like they get the govt. they deserve.

Only if you really stretch what "generally speaking" might mean.

Re: How to Safely and Ethically Film Police Misconduct

#148

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

ficklepickle wrote: post #128
tokai wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Police in Denmark are bullies too. Breaking basic rights, assaulting citizens, covering for each other, lobbying against body cams and visible identifiers on cops like numbers, etc. Profiling is legal and used extensively.

Until we realize that tribalism is human nature, it won't change. Racism is universal amongst humans. We are tribal primates, after all. We need to admit the biases exist and address them head-on. It stands to reason that having a bias against out groups once increased an individuals chance of survival. Now it is actively harming society. If we can't rise above our primitive impulses, we are doomed.

I agree with what you're saying, but I think it's important to understand that the actual politics of reform pose a serious obstacle to admitting biases exist. If a police department produced a document saying "10% of our officers are moderately to severely racist, we're aiming to get that below 3%", they'd be eviscerated.

Re: How to Safely and Ethically Film Police Misconduct

#149

Post by collyw »

tokai wrote: post #77
mtts wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the situation with Nordic police and minorities? Because in the not really Nordic but reasonably civilized Netherlands the supposedly well educated police force is also a known hotbed of racism. Members of the police force in The Hague refer to themselves as “exterminators of Moroccan vermin”. Ethnic profiling is rampant and on at least one occasion a man of color was held down by a group of cops until he died…

Police in Denmark are bullies too. Breaking basic rights, assaulting citizens, covering for each other, lobbying against body cams and visible identifiers on cops like numbers, etc. Profiling is legal and used extensively.

Profiling is seen as bad, but I honestly don't think many grandmas will be the ones committing violent crime (or females in general). If you have some statistics to prove otherwise please show me them.

Re: How to Safely and Ethically Film Police Misconduct

#150

Post by collyw »

ficklepickle wrote: post #111
eyelidlessness wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The police don't target racial minorities because they are racist. This is false. There is a long history of police membership in, involvement and collaboration with explicitly racist groups.

I just saw a video with cops throwing up distinct white supremacist hand signs. I guess nobody told them they aren't racist.

Are you by any chance talking about the OK sign?
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