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Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

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Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#141
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cost of living in relative terms, compared to average salaries, is actually rather low. Rents, food is all really expensive judging from the numbers, but you get to keep a larger amount. Switzlerland is expensive for tourists - but for citizens not so much.

So the starting salary for software developers in Switzerland is higher than that in the US?

I can not tell for the starter salary, but 100000-120000$ is rather the norm (say it was offered to me without any haggling) and contractors (short term employees) make around 150k-250k.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#142
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Switzerland is the size of a small New England state. Mass transit is a tough thing to scale. If tomorrow all of Europe and Asia was unified into one giant continent-spanning country, would building mass transit there suddenly become more difficult?

Yes because the number of stake holders that need to be satisfied and the number of edge cases would increase massively. Look at public transit systems throughout the west whenever they get expanded it's a long painful process because of all the new stakeholders being added and the new edge cases that get brought to light. Edit: Down-voted because inconvenient opinion or down-voted because wrong?

Perhaps because you don't state any mechanism on how the borders of a country increase the complexity of building a particular transit system - you just assert that it is so. Surely the number of stakeholders is more related to proximity, than borders? And China, Russia, and Canada are all large countries, but seem to manage decent mass transit.

In sum, you provide a shaky, ad-hoc justification on why it's more difficult if the country is larger, and ignore counterexamples.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#143
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's okay, you can sub most any country in Europe in, and still end up with a much more sane work culture than the US.

Many people (including myself), don't want a laid back work culture. I want to kill myself for the firm, and work as hard as humanly possible. I think I just derive the most happiness from working (though I do like drinking as well). I know a lot of other people like this. Maybe you can call us brainwashed or whatever, but this is how myself and most of my co-workers are. I don't think it's an accident that America i…

The way you feel isn’t unusual; many Americans feel this way. Then you get older, or sick, or both, and the system you loved so much and gave so much to will discard you like a piece of trash, without even a second thought. And at that point you may begin to feel differently. But enjoy the feeling while you can - it will not last forever.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#144
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cost of living in relative terms, compared to average salaries, is actually rather low. Rents, food is all really expensive judging from the numbers, but you get to keep a larger amount. Switzlerland is expensive for tourists - but for citizens not so much.

So the starting salary for software developers in Switzerland is higher than that in the US?

Reductionist question.

If you're goal is to get someone to "admit" that a software engineer can get paid more in San Francisco than Switzerland, I guess you've won your argument. You can still tell yourself America is the Best Country in the World™.

But as the article indicates, the net worth of the average Swiss is twice that of the average American. The Swiss have found a way to leverage a higher tax rate to less out of pocket cost for their citizens. So you get 20000$ more bucks a year as an American, and then you go ahead and spend it on health insurance or driving a car everywhere.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#145
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because of the Russians?

I mean, it's not 100% true but the actions of Russia during WW2 make this pretty true, and the fact that it seems the US intentionally stayed out of the way to inflict as much damage on Soviet Russia as it could before we got involved. There is no situation where you look at the number of deaths in the war and judge their massive suffering of the Soviet people as anything other than key in the defeat of Nazi Germany.…

I'm not a history expert at all but I think this is a massive over simplification, that ignore context of the time. My understanding is that the US was woefully unprepared (particularly the Army) for WW2 due to its non interventionist stance in the years prior, and had to be reconstituted first. Moreover the U-boats were sinking large numbers of ships in the Atlantic that had to be dealt with.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this is a troll but: VCs have more funding available and are less risk-adverse, employees are easier to underpay/overwork (rip unions), corporate oversight is less burdensome. This is the first job outside of the public sector that I’ve seen union materials prominently displayed on internal notice boards.

> I know this is a troll I can't understand how my point could be considered trolling. People seem to vote with their feet - they often choose US employers over European ones. The employers with the best conditions and pay in Europe are often US employers! For example local offices of Google.

> The employers with the best conditions and pay in Europe are often US employers!

Could this be because theyre being subsidized by an exploited American workforce? They're certainly profiting off weaker data regulation in the USA.

Anyway, it seems trolly because it'd be like arguing "well the Egyptians have pyramids, and the non slave holding civilizations don't. Clearly they're doing SOMETHING right."

Lots of people are leaving America, as well. Most can't afford to. The ones that can afford international lifestyles aren't really burdened as much by the negative aspects of America - they can get good insurance through a company that can afford it, they can afford to Lyft everywhere to make up for the lack of public transit, they can flex during salary negotiations for longer PTO.

How many impoverished in Europe are "voting with their feet" to come to the first world country with the worst safety net out of all of them? Imagine the innovations that could come from America if it actually invested in its population.

The idea that Europe is not innovative is a bit of a myth anyway. This is a fun read: https://ec.europa.eu/growth/industry/innovation/facts-figure...

Btw, Sweden is measured as the "most innovative" country in the EU. So in a system of first world countries with socialized education and healthcare, and despite detractors on this forum of their allegedly "high cost of living" they're still standing out amongst their peers.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#147

How I moved to another country, used its health and social insurance to achieve a positive balance. Then I shame someone who paid $3M in income tax on their not-so-risk-free income that could turn from $21M to $-21M very quickly. Really?

Do you genuinely believe that mitt Romney is at risk for wealth annihilation?

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#148
post #89
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what? How does the average American profit from their existence on their daily lives?

You probably typed that question using the fruits of one or more of these companies. Maybe you Google'd something just before that. You've probably saved time and money with Amazon. Everyone benefits from Tesla advancing electric vehicles and sustainable energy. It goes on and on.

That doesn't mean something similar couldn't exist without America's hyper-capitalist model.

IMO the most valuable websites on the internet could have been created without a profit motive, like Wikipedia. If an American hadn't invented it, someone else would have, and hackers would have indexed it for a searching one way or the other.

There's little evidence that the American work culture being lambasted by social progressives actually contributes any benefits to the world.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#149
I moved to the US (from France), 15 years ago, I think I made the right choice for a 21 year old in 2004. But today I wouldn't recommend it, by virtually every metric except economic growth, and by most intangibles, I feel that the US had not improved enough and even in many cases declined. The state of education, infrastructure, healthcare, inequality, population health, etc. are worrying.

15 years ago it was a no brainer for most people to consider the US as a career and life option, nowadays I think it's only the case for a certain type of people.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#150
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mass transit is a tough thing to scale. Is it? Russia is the largest country on the planet and they have had mass transit figured out for nearly a century. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_in_Russia

Have you been there? I really don’t think Russia has it figured out better than the US. Russia’s infrastructure is certainly not close to the level of Europe/Japan or China.

I'm another person who's been there.

I've lived for three years in the Bay Area and travelled to a few other US cities (LA, Seattle, Portland, Orlando, Chicago) and surprisingly, even the smaller Russian cities I've visited mostly blow the US out of the water in terms of public transit and are a lot better in other aspects too.

The city I stay in the most, where my wife is from, has a population of 110k, is absolutely not wealthy and is pretty far away from Moscow and St. Petersburg.

In terms of local transit, there are frequent and affordable minibuses (Marshrutki) with stops all over the place. They cost (in this city) 17 rubles, which at the moment is around a quarter US. My mother in law is on a teacher's salary which is quite low and has no issues with affordability. I think the longest I waited for one was ~5 minutes.

For regional transit, there are trains to and from the nearest airport and larger city, as well as the capital. From there you can take trains to Moscow and from there most of the rest of Russia. The trains are also fairly affordable, particularly if you go for the lowest class (which is admittedly something most Americans wouldn't be comfortable with).

There are of course also planes.

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