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Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

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Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#21
post #5

Sure, but it's also really expensive to live in Switzerland. Not factoring in the cost of living over there is pretty disingenuous. And it's going to be a serious project to get residency there if you're not a Swiss citizen. Edit: This is not an opinion, cost of living in Switzerland is highest in the world, twice as high as in the US. Even if you make twice as much money, you're basically making the same amount. And…

The cost of living in relative terms, compared to average salaries, is actually rather low. Rents, food is all really expensive judging from the numbers, but you get to keep a larger amount. Switzlerland is expensive for tourists - but for citizens not so much.

[deleted]

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#22
post #20
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think it's an accident that America is the most rich and powerful country in the world. Or that American Tech dominant the world (except for China) You were the winners of a World War that left your competitors in scorched ruins, while you hadn't suffered much physical damage. In the multi-stranded bundle of reasons for American dominance, this is the big one.

Why did they win the war?

Because of the Russians?

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#23
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's okay, you can sub most any country in Europe in, and still end up with a much more sane work culture than the US.

Many people (including myself), don't want a laid back work culture. I want to kill myself for the firm, and work as hard as humanly possible. I think I just derive the most happiness from working (though I do like drinking as well). I know a lot of other people like this. Maybe you can call us brainwashed or whatever, but this is how myself and most of my co-workers are. I don't think it's an accident that America i…

Just so you know usa is ranked 10 in GDP. I don't think being the richest means much, but USA is not the richest https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PP...

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#24
post #9

Is Switzerland producing anything like SpaceX? Or Google? Or Apple, Amazon, Netflix, Tesla, Stripe, Y Combinator? More importantly, would we have produced these with their system? If so, then great, but let's see the evidence. No problem to have a work culture preference, and things could definitely be improved(!!), but I think we're kidding ourselves that there are no tradeoffs and everything would simply be better.…

Switzerland is home to many successful businesses and products.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#25
post #20
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think it's an accident that America is the most rich and powerful country in the world. Or that American Tech dominant the world (except for China) You were the winners of a World War that left your competitors in scorched ruins, while you hadn't suffered much physical damage. In the multi-stranded bundle of reasons for American dominance, this is the big one.

Why did they win the war?

In very large part thanks to geography

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#26
post #9

Is Switzerland producing anything like SpaceX? Or Google? Or Apple, Amazon, Netflix, Tesla, Stripe, Y Combinator? More importantly, would we have produced these with their system? If so, then great, but let's see the evidence. No problem to have a work culture preference, and things could definitely be improved(!!), but I think we're kidding ourselves that there are no tradeoffs and everything would simply be better.…

So what? How does the average American profit from their existence on their daily lives?

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#27
post #8

Transportation is the biggest difference between the us and a lot of the rest of the world. Switzerland is the size of a small New England state. Mass transit is a tough thing to scale. That said I’ve noticed that a lot of the jobs in the us that would be considered “glamorous” are by and large the lowest paying jobs with the longest hours. Looking past the status of a company and career and looking into the practica…

I never understood that argument - Bay Area, the (arguably) richest place on this planet is smaller then Switzerland and it's transit system is catastrophic in comparison to SBB still.

I get that you can't cover Alabama with Swiss railways, but why the heck is traveling from Zurich a Swiss mountain top in the middle of nowhere still faster and more convenient than getting from SF to Mountain View?

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#28
I've experienced a lot of these things since leaving the bay area and moving to Australia. The thing that surprised me most was similar to point #3 - in Australia the less fortunate are taken care of. One big mental drain I had in America was when my friends were sick but could do nothing about it. I had a roommate in Seattle who had severe dental problems and chronic tooth pain, but could do nothing about it because he simply couldn't afford it. I had another friend who had an oblique fracture in their arm, but set it themselves and never went to the doctor. All because healthcare was not only expensive, but randomly expensive. You never knew if you'd be leaving the hospital with a $100 medical bill or a $10,000 medical bill. I had great healthcare for all of my working career, but my friends often didn't, and it ate at me mentally. In Australia that's never been a point of stress. If you have a cold, you go to the doctor, and you always knew it'd be less than $200ish. There were no orders of magnitude more expensive surprises.

The rest of the points resonated highly with me as well, as aside from the maternity leave I've experienced them all. I have to move back to the Bay soon and I'm not looking forward to it. Every time I visit there's more homeless who've been pushed to the streets because the system in place simply doesn't work - Nordic countries, Switzerland, and Australia are simply better in so many aspects. There's a reason why the USA has fallen to #13 in HDI[1] and continues to fall.

The people of the USA have too much pride to change - we've been on top for so long that we often think we can't learn from other countries, and that we have everything figured out. The intro speech Jeff Daniels did in Newsroom [2] resonates here. It's time we looked at what policies actually work for the best of the populous.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Dev... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyzDRc34l2g

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#29
post #23
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people (including myself), don't want a laid back work culture. I want to kill myself for the firm, and work as hard as humanly possible. I think I just derive the most happiness from working (though I do like drinking as well). I know a lot of other people like this. Maybe you can call us brainwashed or whatever, but this is how myself and most of my co-workers are. I don't think it's an accident that America i…

Just so you know usa is ranked 10 in GDP. I don't think being the richest means much, but USA is not the richest https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PP...

Pretty disingenuous to say GDP when you mean GDP PPP.

The US does have the highest GDP (by a large margin).

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#30
I recently moved from working for a US company to working for a CH one. There’s some disadvantages, like people not giving their all at work slowing things down. Compared to the previous role, it’s glacial. But no on call, 6 weeks vacation, and 8% pension contribution from the company that I don’t even have to match is a good trade-off. Work is always going to be frustrating, but I’m at a point in my life that I’d rather be frustrated at being forced to work a maximum of 37.5 hours per week (tracked with timesheets) than frustrated at unrealistic deadlines and the cult of appearing to get things done.
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