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Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

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Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#131
post #115
post #69

So the USA is fucked up when it comes to work/life balance and the US has no social system worth anything. Who knew? Well, we all knew. The US has been the laughing stock of the world for decades and the only ones who haven't noticed are the americans. No news here.

> The US has been the laughing stock of the world for decades and the only ones who haven't noticed are the americans. Right, it's not like the world has benefited at all from modern innovations from the US. Like the Internet or the US' contributions to medical science and technology or humanitarian efforts. And why they're not using Google, iPhones or Android devices, watching American movies, etc. Also please expla…

[deleted]

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#132
post #127
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These countries are laid back Have you worked in Italy or Spain? I'm Spanish and laid back at work is not a thing. The main reason I moved to Sweden is for is better work life balance. Never go to live where you go for vacations, you will be very disappointed.

No but have many friends there. It depends if you're in the north or the south. Same with Italy.

> It depends if you're in the north or the south

As most work is located in the big cities (Madrid, Barcelona, etc.) that is what most people will experience. But, the South or even the countryside is quite different. I agree with you.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You don't think US cities have mass transit? No, they are a hilarious joke. NYC metro is a dirty cesspool that can't build anything within budget. Marta in ATL doesen't go anywhere and hasn't added a new line in decades. Everyone knows how bad BART is. Also, it's generally more expensive to take Amtrak than fly. And Amtrak goes nowhere vs the Russian train systems. Just pull up a map to compare. And Russia does hav…

Interesting that you decided to exclude Boston, Chicago, DC, and Philly from your list. NYC is a massively overbuilt city, much of which is on an island of bedrock. It wouldn't be any better if it was in Russia with the same geography. Not sure how Amtrak being more expensive than flying is relevant. Plus, I don't think you want to compare train coverage in the US vs Russia. Most of Russia's land area doesn't have go…

We can include Boston if you'd like; it's awful too. The commuter rail fails on a daily basis in the summer and winter. The buses are persistently late and/or bunched up because they get stuck in traffic. (Feedback loop here, of course: the worse transit is, the more people decide to drive.) The T is overcrowded during peak hours and utterly unpredictable outside of them.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do so many technology breakthroughs and successful companies get founded in the US, compared to Europe, then? Why do so many Europeans go off to work for US companies? There must be something beneficial about the US approach.

I know this is a troll but: VCs have more funding available and are less risk-adverse, employees are easier to underpay/overwork (rip unions), corporate oversight is less burdensome. This is the first job outside of the public sector that I’ve seen union materials prominently displayed on internal notice boards.

> I know this is a troll

I can't understand how my point could be considered trolling.

People seem to vote with their feet - they often choose US employers over European ones.

The employers with the best conditions and pay in Europe are often US employers! For example local offices of Google.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#135
post #49

Sure, but it's also really expensive to live in Switzerland. Not factoring in the cost of living over there is pretty disingenuous. And it's going to be a serious project to get residency there if you're not a Swiss citizen. Edit: This is not an opinion, cost of living in Switzerland is highest in the world, twice as high as in the US. Even if you make twice as much money, you're basically making the same amount. And…

US and Canadian citizens can get Permit C (unconditional residency permit) after 5 years on Permit B (employment-bound permit). Citizenship is 5 more years after that. For EU citizens I think it's even simpler. For all other countries it's 10+10 years.

> US and Canadian citizens can get Permit C (unconditional residency permit) after 5 years on Permit B (employment-bound permit).

5 years satisfies the time requirement for American and Canadian citizens (and certain other countries) but they still have to satify the other requirements, the most burdensome of which is learning the local language. In Zürich, you have to learn A2 level German specifically (which actually isn't too hard) but this varies by canton.

> Citizenship is 5 more years after that.

Mostly, just note that in addition, you have to have been living in the canton and commune in which you want to obtain citizenship for a certain amount of time.

Also, integration is a requirement for citizenship. What this means varies by commune but the main thing is that you've learned an official language to a working level (B1 I think).

> For all other countries it's 10+10 years.

As a third country national you can obtain a residence permit (C) within 5 years by integration. Integration mainly means learning the local language to a particular level, which varies by canton (in Zürich it's B1 German).

I believe time spent living on a B permit counts towards citizenship so you can do it in 5+5 no matter where you're from, just like the US.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#136
post #75
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think it's an accident that America is the most rich and powerful country in the world. Or that American Tech dominant the world (except for China) You were the winners of a World War that left your competitors in scorched ruins, while you hadn't suffered much physical damage. In the multi-stranded bundle of reasons for American dominance, this is the big one.

I think people also forget how must during and post WW2 a huge chunk of world talent moved to US and how that contributed to the technological superiority. If you take top 0.01% talent of the world in STEM, what percentage of them would be living/working in US right now?

And now the US is now excluding and even ejecting top researchers due to their nationalities, sending them elsewhere so some other country can grow instead.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#137
post #49

Sure, but it's also really expensive to live in Switzerland. Not factoring in the cost of living over there is pretty disingenuous. And it's going to be a serious project to get residency there if you're not a Swiss citizen. Edit: This is not an opinion, cost of living in Switzerland is highest in the world, twice as high as in the US. Even if you make twice as much money, you're basically making the same amount. And…

US and Canadian citizens can get Permit C (unconditional residency permit) after 5 years on Permit B (employment-bound permit). Citizenship is 5 more years after that. For EU citizens I think it's even simpler. For all other countries it's 10+10 years.

In theory. I looked into emigrating to Switzerland a few years ago and I was told that getting a work permit was nearly impossible as a US citizen. Swiss companies have to prove that they can't find an EU passport holder with the expertise necessary for the job before they can hire an American or any other non-EU passport holder.

Unless something has changed?

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#138
post #28

I've experienced a lot of these things since leaving the bay area and moving to Australia. The thing that surprised me most was similar to point #3 - in Australia the less fortunate are taken care of. One big mental drain I had in America was when my friends were sick but could do nothing about it. I had a roommate in Seattle who had severe dental problems and chronic tooth pain, but could do nothing about it because…

Coming from Australia to the US I've had a similar experience, but have been tempted to discount it as just familiarity bias that I prefer Australia. But the more time goes on the more undeniable it seems that Australia is a better place to live regardless of any bias I have toward it. So I have begun to embrace that it's just true that Australia is a better place to live.

There's just less day to day friction in life. Taxes are lower (not in the top bracket perhaps, but for almost all people. Even then this sounds false, but add up all the taxes including local and FICA/med and you'll see), and easier to do. Sales taxes are included in prices, there isn't required tipping, speed limits are enforced meaning traffic is smoother and more predictable. Somehow the floor on the quality of goods and services is higher - not choosing exactly what you buy carefully is less likely to result in regret. Democracy is fairly functional. There is lower inequality. Lower crime.

Banking and payment systems are better - no cheques, widespread contactless payments, instant, free interbank transfers. Also, ordinary banks implementing these things instead of requiring outside disruption from tech companies, e.g. apple pay/google pay/paypal.

Healthcare, of course. Interest free student loans and heavily subsidised undergraduate education, such that someone from a poor background can get a good education (I have a PhD now, and my parents have not paid a cent for my education or living expenses during my education). I would prefer university to be free, but seeing undergrads here in the US, and hearing that practically everyone has support from their parents, it's still a big difference. Government payments for students. I would prefer they were higher, but if you live with enough roommates, it can be enough to pay rent.

High minimum wage. Compulsory retirement savings (9%). High salaries generally - if I go back to Australia for the same kind of job I'm in now, the salary will go up by about 30%. Perhaps software development is an exception that is relevant to many people here, but for most jobs salaries in Australia seem higher. Especially at the bottom end. I used to work in retail during undergrad for AU$21 an hour. (pretty much minimum wage plus 20% loading for not having a guaranteed minimum number of hours per week).

Lower cost of living generally. I know if you average over the whole US the cost of living is apparently lower than in Australia, but in the DC metro area where I am now it's not my experience. My weekly grocery bill here about 30% higher than in Australia - and the products of worse quality in my opinion (unless I shop at say, wholefoods, then it's twice the cost as in Australia). Notable exceptions: buying a house, beer, cigarettes, electrical bills, video games.

I don't mean to say Australia and Australians can necessarily take credit for most of these things, though they can for some. There's an argument that Australia is kind of defecting in a prisoners dilemma or sorts, by enjoying all the technological developments made elsewhere without having contributed that much to it. Or that the single-payer system for drugs pays drug companies so little that while they'll accept the price, they wouldn't have developed the drugs in the first place if Australia were their only buyer.

But at the end of it, it's a great place to live.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#139
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because of the Russians?

I mean, it's not 100% true but the actions of Russia during WW2 make this pretty true, and the fact that it seems the US intentionally stayed out of the way to inflict as much damage on Soviet Russia as it could before we got involved. There is no situation where you look at the number of deaths in the war and judge their massive suffering of the Soviet people as anything other than key in the defeat of Nazi Germany.…

The Americans chose a master of logistics (Eisenhower) as the supreme commander in Europe, and indeed delayed invasion by a year to minimize casualties and retain control of territory once conquered. That it caused more privation for the Russians was considered a convenient side effect, not a primary aspect.

The US was hardly hurt by the war at all, suffering comparatively few casualties; as their states were never actually attacked their primary contribution in Europe was to ship material from their factories to Russia and the other allies. Factories which after the war switched back to making commercial goods.

The war in the Pacific was a different matter, but again, only some US colonies were attacked and civilian suffering even in those territories was nothing compared to what other countries had to deal with.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#140
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about taking over an entire continent from the natives, sharing a language and federal government that led to only ONE (count em) war on the continent in 300 years, and so on. Read Stratfor’s “inevitable empire” series on USA: https://worldview.stratfor.com/article/geopolitics-united-st...

I agree with your comment and also recommend the linked pages, but I think you have to count the American revolutionary war as a war, too.

Though like so many it was not resolved on the battlefield but through lobbying and bribery in parliament. Unlike, say, the Viet Nam war in the USA, the American skirmishes had a negligible impact on the British purse.
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