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Magnesium and major depression (2011)

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

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Re: Magnesium and major depression (2011)

#141

Post by comboy »

_ywdj wrote: post #133

> "Deficits of Mg may result from inadequate intake, malabsorption, or renal loss" Unless I missed it, the paper didn't consider another possible cause of magnesium deficiency: depression. I.e., the paper seems to conflate correlation with causation (i.e., magnesium deficiency may cause depression), and doesn't consider that the causality may go in the other direction: that magnesium deficiency is a physiological man…

Did you test your magnesium level by blood tests? Less than 1% of magnesium (AFAIR) is stored in blood and its level can fluctuate a lot depending on your body state.

Correlation is not causation but what HN readers should remember is that most researchers are aware of that fact.

So yes, I'm pretty sure you've missed it among those 350 pages, especially given that results of treatment are mentioned in the abstract.

Re: Magnesium and major depression (2011)

#142

Post by entangledqubit »

SirensOfTitan wrote: post #101
kevstev wrote: post #85

I started taking magnesium supplements about 9 months ago, not for any depression issues, but more for muscle issues. I had a weird leg muscle injury a few years ago that I never really got a proper diagnosis for that happened when doing some light hiking. In doing my own research on that, a condition similar to my symptoms came up, and one of the causes was a magnesium deficiency. I had a few other minor ailments co…

What kind of Magnesium are you taking? There’s a huge differential of bioavailability of different magnesium types.

People mentioning their experiences here should definitely mention what form they're taking. Magnesium oxide is pretty commonly sold but it doesn't get absorbed very well - to the point where I think it should not be sold at all. I've had good experience with chelated magnesium.

Re: Magnesium and major depression (2011)

#143

Post by sapilla »

Genetikl33 wrote: post #92
sapilla wrote: post #70

I found CBD to provide temporary relief - I think my depression was inflammation related. The world is still dark and compressed but also comfortable, like the dark corners fill with algae and the ground with grass. What ended up working was improving my oral posture and articulation using ortothropics and self-developed speech exercises (the important part is having designed the exercises yourself). Suddenly it's va…

Can you elaborate on oral posture and articulation? I have a major snoring (apnea) and breathing issue due to dentistry mistakes (taking out teeth when I should not have as a kid) and my face caved in which compresses my breathing. This is my theory at least. I am curious because this is the first time I hear about the concepts you brought up

The most important thing is to have the tip of your tongue (almost) touching your teeth and then gradually increasing the amount of tongue-to-roof-of-mouth surface, beginning it the front - your current limit is where it blocks nasal breathing. This stimulates horizontal (forwards) bone development vs. vertical (downwards) development.

A "drill" I can recommend is writing out words a defined number of times (pick a number you like between 10 and 100), as you write also pronounce them without letting your tongue lose contact with the roof of your mouth. This may feel very unnatural at first. If you don't like the result just recycle the paper.

There's also the habit of sucking or pulling in your tongue - don't do that. I think it causes jaw clenching. If you want a fast way to get rid of that, invent metaphors for it and then watch yourself do it automatically in social interactions.

Also check out ortothropics, it's the emerging science of facial development through oral posture. They have a large collection of instructional material on YouTube.

Re: Magnesium and major depression (2011)

#144

Post by geggam »

kerkeslager wrote: post #131
geggam wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire endocannabanoid system in humans is interesting. If you think about it less than 100 years ago hemp and CBD oil was in our diet. Almost like we evolved with a system for it.

> If you think about it less than 100 years ago hemp and CBD oil was in our diet. If I think about it, I do not come to that conclusion at all. Do you have any evidence for this claim?

Sure.

Hemp is a weed and was growing prolifically all over the US until the 1920's and 1930's, when it was outlawed. Free range cattle still is a big thing but was even larger then. Most of the beef in the nation consumed hemp, and the people consumed hemp 2nd hand by eating the domestic and wild animals that grazed on this wild growing weed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemp

Then you take a look at the "newly" (1990s) discovered endocannabanoid system in humans

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endocannabinoid_system

It isn't hard to extrapolate that humans have been digesting the weed and cannabinoids for a long time and it is an integral part of the human system

Of course you can say humans and the plants evolved parallel and they arent related. I have no evidence to prove otherwise but typically when you see similar systems in the same ecosystem they are related.

Re: Magnesium and major depression (2011)

#145

Post by arkades »

sizzle wrote: post #138
arkades wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

200mg is a decent bump on average daily intake (360mg), and mag isn’t managed as well as other ions. If you don’t already, please have your doc check your mag levels every couple of months while you do this. Hypermagnesemia is no joke.

Damn I take tums after every meal and 5 pills of chelated magnesium throughout the day...

Tums after every meal is actually a really good way of getting electrolyte imbalances, to the point of developing kidney stones from the amount that the kidney has to excrete to try and keep things on an even keel. If you need tums after every meal, you should be talking to your doc about a PPI.

edit: Now I think on it, actually, depending on (variables), you might need a specialist visit more than a PCP visit for some antacids. Shame on me for assuming it's just unmanaged acid reflux.

Re: Magnesium and major depression (2011)

#146

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

DanBC wrote: post #77
aik wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Magnesium truly does wonders for my sleep but every single person I’ve recommended it to has not had similar results. Like many things I’m sure there’s a significant difference depending on your biochemistry.

> Like many things I’m sure there’s a significant difference depending on your biochemistry. ...and placebo effect.

ESPECIALLY for something that's so delicate as sleep.

Re: Magnesium and major depression (2011)

#147

Post by sapilla »

cbdSchizo wrote: post #97
sapilla wrote: post #70

I found CBD to provide temporary relief - I think my depression was inflammation related. The world is still dark and compressed but also comfortable, like the dark corners fill with algae and the ground with grass. What ended up working was improving my oral posture and articulation using ortothropics and self-developed speech exercises (the important part is having designed the exercises yourself). Suddenly it's va…

Proof that cannabinoids lead to schizophrenic breaks.

Wherever humor is the enemy, sure.

Re: Magnesium and major depression (2011)

#148

Post by _ywdj »

comboy wrote: post #141
_ywdj wrote: post #133

> "Deficits of Mg may result from inadequate intake, malabsorption, or renal loss" Unless I missed it, the paper didn't consider another possible cause of magnesium deficiency: depression. I.e., the paper seems to conflate correlation with causation (i.e., magnesium deficiency may cause depression), and doesn't consider that the causality may go in the other direction: that magnesium deficiency is a physiological man…

Did you test your magnesium level by blood tests? Less than 1% of magnesium (AFAIR) is stored in blood and its level can fluctuate a lot depending on your body state. Correlation is not causation but what HN readers should remember is that most researchers are aware of that fact. So yes, I'm pretty sure you've missed it among those 350 pages, especially given that results of treatment are mentioned in the abstract.

> Did you test your magnesium level by blood tests?

No, hair tests. Which I dread talking about in forums like this as it can be a red cloth to motivated skeptics/cynics (of which I used to be one until I was blessed with the opportunity to endure this experience), but the results have been consistent with my experienced-symptoms over a long period of time (10 years so far), and the correlation with my emotional work and subjective mood/life experience has been clear.

> Less than 1% of magnesium (AFAIR) is stored in blood and its level can fluctuate a lot depending on your body state

Yes, that's hair tests are used for this type of healing work.

> So yes, I'm pretty sure you've missed it among those 350 pages

I wish you would take more of a good-faith approach to the discussion and point to where this is mentioned.

I read over the abstract as thoroughly as I could for evidence that they properly considered this.

I can see mention of the observation that magnesium levels seemed to respond to antidepressants, but it still seems to assume that the cause is physiological, and that any mood-change is an effect not a cause/influence.

Nothing I can find in the abstract suggests that depression-causing-magnesium-deficiency was considered, studied and disproven, yet such possibilities are often raised in other circles, and it aligns with my own experience (and available evidence).

Please understand that people like myself and a few others on HN, who have been trying to share perspectives like these for many years, get rather tired of reflexive dismissals, despite having done vast amounts research and experimentation/data-collection.

Re: Magnesium and major depression (2011)

#149

Post by taneq »

lordgrenville wrote: post #134

People that rely on desalinated water can become magnesium deficient. There was a study in Israel about a rise in heart attacks based on magnesium deficiency from desalination. [1] I wonder if there might be a mental health angle to this as well. [1] https://www.timesofisrael.com/deficiencies-in-desalinated-wa...

Hmm, the city I live in has been mixing in more and more desalinated water in the last few years...

Re: Magnesium and major depression (2011)

#150

Post by debt »

I don't get it, why do I so regularly see these random solutions to depression on the homepage? Are startup founders really depressed or something? Is there a rash of suicides in this community? I don't get it.

Overwhelmingly, normal-ass anti-anxiety, SSRs, and therapy is to be the best form of treatment. Pumping your body full of magnesium is a hack that falls in to the bucket of exercise or sleeping more.

If you're scared about going to the doctor and getting prescribed, that's one thing. But mainlining crushed up magnesium vitamins to fix your depression is a complete lack of understanding of depression.

Magnesium is not treatment. Mushrooms and Ketamine is not treatment. Get actual treatment.

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