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Magnesium and major depression (2011)

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

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Re: Magnesium and major depression (2011)

#61

Post by maroonblazer »

icxa wrote: post #53
koboll wrote: post #44

>Magnesium has been largely removed from processed foods, especially refined grains, in the Western world, harming the brain and causing mood disorders. This seems to be the case with many such nutrients. I almost wonder if the most effective solution isn't a medical approach but a medically-informed, government-led incentive program to convince food manufacturers to reintroduce the essential nutrients they strip out…

When the US government is in charge of feeding people healthy foods, they came up with the now defunct "Food Pyramid" and school lunch, which featured classic gems like "government cheese", "square pizza" and my favorite, mystery meat "salisbury steak"

But weren't they simply following the lead of the most widely accepted science at the time? As science has learned more the government recommendations have evolved as well, albeit perhaps not as rapidly or comprehensively as they could.

Re: Magnesium and major depression (2011)

#62

Post by gus_massa »

phkahler wrote: post #42
reneberlin wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry - you are wrong. John Cade found the effects - with animals - by accident. And he was widely ignored because of his lack of fundamental, industry-wide standards for exploration. Neverless: lithium is now the way to go with clinical treatment of a wide range of disorders and reducing self-harm and suicide rates. The problem so far: nobody is sure why it works. The dose is worth mentioning. Clients receive a…

Wish we knew why it works. But it's also nice that something is accepted based on data alone. Many people in science tend to reject claims based on a lack of explanation alone. But that's the whole point - observe and then try to figure out why or how.

> Many people in science tend to reject claims based on a lack of explanation alone.

Do you have a good example? Most of the examples I think of are just results got by badly run clinical trials or unreproducible physics experiments.

Re: Magnesium and major depression (2011)

#63

Post by jerf »

Tharkun wrote: post #7
BadassFractal wrote: post #2

Poor man's TLDR: we're not sure yet, but consider taking magnesium supplementation to help with or prevent MD. The downside of light Mg supplementation seems trivial, and the upside could be strong.

Mg deficiency is also implicated in some cardiac arrhythmias and supplementation has been shown to help.

That's why I'm taking it. I have an absorption disease (Celiac) and I was having terrible cardiac issues at 38 (and with a minor family history of heart issues at older age, but nothing like what I was having). Magnesium is one of the things it has taken to straighten it out.

If you have heart issues, you may have to try to balance magnesium and potassium. If the problem is a deficiency, this is a rather annoyingly difficult balancing act to pull off, because as per the comments in the beginning of Gwern's article about magnesium, magnesium has a very slow-moving component to it, where it depletes slowly but also only fills slowly, and a fast moving component that responds relatively quickly, and based on my experience, the heart's use of magnesium seems to be related to both. Potassium, by contrast, appears to take nearly instant effect. So you're balancing something you can't see that changes over the course of months or years against a nutritional input that is instant. This is not easy.

Several times I've settled on a dosing schedule that seemed to work for me, but had to be changed after a couple of months as the slow-pool magnesium (I hope) continued to improve. I've actually learned the difference in my body's reactions to a potassium deficiency (a tightness in the chest) vs. a magnesium deficiency (restless legs, heart that may not be "racing" but is not slowing down for sleep properly). YMMV; n=1, etc.

Re: Magnesium and major depression (2011)

#64

Post by fxj »

yetihehe wrote: post #26
gerbilly wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take magnesium bis-glycinate, it's well absorbed and has no serious side effects.

Me too. I haven't tried other versions which are recommended by this paper, but I can recommend bis-glycinate. I tried carbonate and it didn't work for me. Recommended dose is 150mg/day, but I've found I need even 300mg/day (heavy cofee drinker).

I take Mg Taurate against extrasystoles and it works very well for me. I also tried Mg Citrate together with Carnitine which enhances the Mg uptake in the gut. Mg Carbonate or Oxide are hardly soluble and also basic which makes it not very digestable.

Re: Magnesium and major depression (2011)

#65

Post by wiggler00m »

anonu wrote: post #59
wiggler00m wrote: post #58

Why supplement magnesium instead of getting it from dietary sources?

You didnt read the article. From the article: > Magnesium has been largely removed from processed foods, especially refined grains, in the Western world,

"Dietary magnesium intake has steadily declined over the preceding century, due to...(b) making dietary choices low in magnesium-rich foods such as whole grains, rice and wheat bran, nuts, seeds, chocolate, peanuts, peanut butter and green leafy vegetables..."

If the root cause is insufficient dietary magnesium -- due to poor dietary choices -- eating foods that are rich in magnesium, and cutting out refined foods, might be a good start. It would have other benefits, too.

I don't like to see people taking tons of supplements whilst eating poorly.

Re: Magnesium and major depression (2011)

#66

Post by fifnir »

icxa wrote: post #53
koboll wrote: post #44

>Magnesium has been largely removed from processed foods, especially refined grains, in the Western world, harming the brain and causing mood disorders. This seems to be the case with many such nutrients. I almost wonder if the most effective solution isn't a medical approach but a medically-informed, government-led incentive program to convince food manufacturers to reintroduce the essential nutrients they strip out…

When the US government is in charge of feeding people healthy foods, they came up with the now defunct "Food Pyramid" and school lunch, which featured classic gems like "government cheese", "square pizza" and my favorite, mystery meat "salisbury steak"

When the free market is in charge the results aren't much better, why not have another go at the government approach and learn from our mistakes?

Re: Magnesium and major depression (2011)

#67

Post by fxj »

jerf wrote: post #63
Tharkun wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mg deficiency is also implicated in some cardiac arrhythmias and supplementation has been shown to help.

That's why I'm taking it. I have an absorption disease (Celiac) and I was having terrible cardiac issues at 38 (and with a minor family history of heart issues at older age, but nothing like what I was having). Magnesium is one of the things it has taken to straighten it out. If you have heart issues, you may have to try to balance magnesium and potassium. If the problem is a deficiency, this is a rather annoyingly d…

I have HOCM and afib and Mg and potassium helps wonder with the extrasystoles. I also take taurine against the extrasystoles in combination with Mg and K in the evening before going to bed and I can sleep much better.

Re: Magnesium and major depression (2011)

#68

Post by user17843 »

digdugdirk wrote: post #54
mboto wrote: post #11

I have found that taking Magnesium is like turning a switch on in my head and I'm suddenly happy again. I don't get upset or angry in the same way, I'm more patient and my thoughts are not obsessive. Magnesium is best taken with calcium and vitamin D as both are used in the uptake of magnesium. I have found that processed foods, alcohol, caffeine and sugar all make me worse, but magnesium gives me the will power to c…

What is your dosage and form for the supplements you mentioned?

Not directly answering your question, but in general the studies and anecdotes point to around 200 mg of elemental magnesium in the form of magnesium threonate and 4,000 IE of Vitamin D to be a very good combination.

The Threonate makes the magnesium available to the brain.

Other forms of magnesium are usually taken in the 400-800 mg range.

Re: Magnesium and major depression (2011)

#69

Post by Bakary »

mboto wrote: post #11

I have found that taking Magnesium is like turning a switch on in my head and I'm suddenly happy again. I don't get upset or angry in the same way, I'm more patient and my thoughts are not obsessive. Magnesium is best taken with calcium and vitamin D as both are used in the uptake of magnesium. I have found that processed foods, alcohol, caffeine and sugar all make me worse, but magnesium gives me the will power to c…

Doesn't the article mention that calcium and vitamin D produce harmful effects?

Re: Magnesium and major depression (2011)

#70

Post by sapilla »

I found CBD to provide temporary relief - I think my depression was inflammation related. The world is still dark and compressed but also comfortable, like the dark corners fill with algae and the ground with grass.

What ended up working was improving my oral posture and articulation using ortothropics and self-developed speech exercises (the important part is having designed the exercises yourself). Suddenly it's vastly easier to maintain correct spinal alignment and breathing. Depression is just an emotion again.

I supplement fish oil, gradeschool-tier mathematics and meditation, from Vigyan Bhairava Tantra.

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