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Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

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Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#141

Post by szggzs27 »

duxup wrote: post #132
dcosson wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, this just sounds to me like a pitch for AirBnB. They managed to solve this exact problem you're complaining about via the rating system and guests being attached to their real identity. The vast majority of AirBnB guests are very respectful and reasonable. As for your tight local control, fuck that. No, you shouldn't get to decide exactly what happens in your neighborhood just because you got there first. You…

>As for your tight local control, fuck that. No, you shouldn't get to decide exactly what happens in your neighborhood just because you got there first. That's right I don't get to decide because I was there first. I get to decide because the majority elected me to the association and I carried out their will. I was a representative of the neighborhood and the neighborhood got to decide. I say "get" but I'm not there…

why bother replying to a guy who thinks AirBnB solves problems with rating systems? the guy thinking depth is nonexistent

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#142

Post by parthdesai »

hannob wrote: post #60

I find it really unfortunate that the airbnb debate is always so polarized. AirBNB has often provided me a better alternative to a largely terrible hotel market that often takes racket prices and makes me pay for services I don't need. On the other hand I completely understand when people are annoyed about party folk living in the flat above them or when they lack safety regulations or don't pay the same taxes hotels…

>On the other hand I completely understand when people are annoyed about party folk living in the flat above them or when they lack safety regulations or don't pay the same taxes hotels do.

Or creating a shortage of supply for actual people looking to rent in the cities desirable areas, which results in increase of rent. That's the biggest one imo.

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#143

Post by protomyth »

noer wrote: post #5
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #2

The more I look at AirBnb, it reality it seems like a conspiracy to enable illegal activity (illegal listings, not collecting taxes). I wonder if in the future, a US Attorney or State Attorney General will attempt to bring criminal charges against the principals of the company. The threat of real jail time would do wonders to get their attention.

It's the same kind of regulations arbitrage that powered Uber (& Lyft, though to a lesser extent because at first they tried to make it look like riders/drivers knew each other). The difference here is that the only people who really complained about Uber/Lyft was the taxi industry, which mostly was viewed in a neutral light at best. AirBnb seems to have managed to cause disruption both to the hotel industry as well…

We have a lot of laws built up over the years because of safety concerns with hotels. Hotels have had scary things go on and legislatures have had to deal with the public safety problems quite often. The main problem with taxis is they are often an artificially scarce resource because of government rationing (e.g. medallions).

Also, messing around near people's homes tends to illicit a primal response.

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#144

Post by evilotto »

duxup wrote: post #40
iandanforth wrote: post #37

This seems like an overly critical article. Zoning laws and NIMBY impulses should be fought tooth-and-nail and I'm glad Airbnb is doing so. The platform has allowed me to actually enjoy travel in ways I never could before. What I feel like is missing is a communication path from the community to the platform. Because people start by calling the police to complain it immediately becomes a legal and local ordinance iss…

>If it were easy to report abuses to Airbnb directly, or if local police were instructed to contact them, the platform could better regulate itself. I don't think Airbnb really cares to do that... and that kinda is where the problems start in terms of what Airbnb is really all about.

It's funny how all the "disruptive" startups have the same basic business model of taking money away from someone who was getting it before (generally local governments, but that cascades to many other people like medallion holders); giving some of that money to the customers and call it a discount, and keeping the rest of it for themselves.

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#145

Post by turc1656 »

Any time anyone says they "want to pay taxes", you know they are lying. No one anywhere wants to pay - no one looks forward to it.

Not that I'm a fan of big government, but I don't understand why, if they really are just ignoring the law in most jurisdictions (which they are), none of these states just issue arrest warrants for the people in charge of these decisions? Why isn't there an outstanding warrant for the CEO of AirBnB from any one of the 50 US states for flagrant tax evasion? Or even going further to actually request the state where that CEO is present in to be arrested and extradited to that state? The CEO can't possibly claim they didn't know this was an issue. So then the battle will be forced in court for them to prove that they weren't responsible for collecting the tax and that if instead the property owners were in fact responsible, that AirBnB wasn't guilty of facilitating criminal tax evasion.

I'm sick and tired of these Silicon Valley companies deciding that their big idea is to decentralize so that they can ignore regulations and licensing requirements by saying "we're just a platform, the users need to do that". Same bullshit with Uber claiming their drivers aren't employees but rather "independent contractors", even though Uber sets all the rules, prices, etc. I've never heard of an independent contractor who can't determine how much they charge.

Similarly, these AirBnB places aren't legally zoned for the activity they are engaging in, nor are virtually any of the property owners licensed to do business as a lodging facility or registered and authorized to collect the occupancy taxes. AirBnB knows this and the grand scale of the illegal activity, at bare minimum, proves that the purpose of the platform is to circumvent the laws/regulations but not with an actual loophole, just by ignoring them and hoping they can grow fast enough so that they aren't just shut down hard.

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#146

Post by perpetualpatzer »

koboll wrote: post #86
freshm087 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article is essentially about tax authorities trying to offload their work on AirBnB. Irresponsible owners will not disappear if it happened.

It's worded very poorly, too, such as "The onus is on hosts, Airbnb argues", as if there's some debate over whether 1099 contractors are responsible for their own taxes. I'm sure local governments would love to collect a big check from Airbnb instead of hunting down thousands of tax-dodgers; but doing local tax collection authorities' work for them isn't exactly Airbnb's responsibility.

>doing local tax collection authorities' work for them isn't exactly Airbnb's responsibility.

Not by default, sure, but nothing prevents a local government from creating a law that says, "where an organization takes commissions in connection with its marketing and/or or the facilitation of payment for short-term rentals of property within our jurisdiction, the organization is responsible for collecting any occupancy taxes associated with the transaction."[0]

[0]https://www.arnoldporter.com/en/perspectives/publications/20...

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#147

Post by evilotto »

jak92 wrote: post #30
drugme wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So this is local governments trying to railroad an online information/marketplace/intermediation firm into becoming a tax collector. It's not "railroading", it's called "the regulated collection of reasonable usage fees." It's how cities are run, and have always been run. If Airbnb doesn't like it -- they don't need to go into the hospitality business in these places.

> the hospitality business but they're a technology company!

McDonald's is a real estate company. That doesn't mean they don't sell burgers.

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#148

Post by brandonmenc »

cbsks wrote: post #104
nate_meurer wrote: post #81

I run a vacation rental in a small town in the mountains of Colorado. I'm quite happy to pay the taxes the town demands. Our place is busy, and our guests make a significant impact on the town, spending a lot of money in local shops and restaurants. On the other hand, there is increased wear on city and county roads (many of which are gravel), and increased load on water, sewer, and sanitation services. Cities and co…

>On the other hand, there is increased wear on city and county roads (many of which are gravel), and increased load on water, sewer, and sanitation services. Why would renters cause more wear on those resources than full time occupants?

> Why would renters cause more wear on those resources than full time occupants?

When you travel, how many people do you cram into a single room? How much are you driving around the town you're visiting?

The answer to both is: probably a lot more than someone who lives there.

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#149

Post by dogcomplex »

braythwayt wrote: post #56
iandanforth wrote: post #37

This seems like an overly critical article. Zoning laws and NIMBY impulses should be fought tooth-and-nail and I'm glad Airbnb is doing so. The platform has allowed me to actually enjoy travel in ways I never could before. What I feel like is missing is a communication path from the community to the platform. Because people start by calling the police to complain it immediately becomes a legal and local ordinance iss…

Why should zoning laws be fought tooth-and-nail? If I buy a house in a neighbourhood full of single-family dwellings that are all one and two storeys high, should I be able to build a condo building on my land? Can I open a nightclub in my house? What about parking? Can I pave my front lawn and rent the space out as parking spots? Or maybe put a dumpster there for local businesses to put their trash in? There's a tre…

I mean... every one of those examples involves construction/renovation or directly impacts neighbors. Having guests over in your unchanged house, parking in your designated parking spaces, and just happening to charge money for the experience is a much more reasonable grey area - and doesn't affect tenants much if they hold the guests to the same behavioral standards as the original tenant. If they were just regular roommates/friends, it would be pretty intrusive to ban such behavior, especially if they're not violating maximum occupancy rules. I agree it's a violation in spirit, and many of the above rules get broken anyway, but there's definitely a grey area here that needs a different set of rules.

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#150

Post by curiousjorge »

So this is the new neo-liberal globalism, same game, just younger millenials doing it to each other. Airbnb is detrimental and harmful to the local socioeconomic dynamics.

Another classic YC production, so it seems, on top of the other 'questionable' startup investments.

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