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Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

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Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#51

Post by stcredzero »

drugme wrote: post #16
stcredzero wrote: post #11

To be sure, these aren’t Airbnb’s taxes, any more than Hilton “pays” taxes for its guests’ hotel stays. Rather, the officials sparring with Airbnb want the company to collect and forward the taxes from guests, much as hotels do. So this is local governments trying to railroad an online information/marketplace/intermediation firm into becoming a tax collector. The local governments can't practically collect the taxes,…

So this is local governments trying to railroad an online information/marketplace/intermediation firm into becoming a tax collector. It's not "railroading", it's called "the regulated collection of reasonable usage fees." It's how cities are run, and have always been run. If Airbnb doesn't like it -- they don't need to go into the hospitality business in these places.

If Airbnb doesn't like it -- they don't need to go into the hospitality business in these places.

That's a dangerous precedent there. Any company that acts as online information/marketplace/intermediation is automatically "in the business?" That's a dangerous precedent to set. Does that mean that reddit is the defacto author & publisher of everything on reddit? Amazon is culpable as the manufacturer of everything it sells? (Not just Amazon Basics.) Something about that strikes me as not quite right and very dangerous.

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#52

Post by Juliate »

keanebean86 wrote: post #39
pjc50 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of cities where apartments have become AirBnBs, caused great disruption to their neighbours, and driven up rents. This has resulted in people demanding that Something Be Done.

Are people using airbnbs as apartments? I don't see how it drives rent up. There's a finite amount of tourism/visitors so they should only be competing with hotels. What am I missing here? Edit: downvoted for asking a question you disagree with? What is this reddit?

Where tourism is, economic activity thrives. Local population grows. => there's a shortage of housing, especially in city center, where people want to live, and want to go. => there's a competition to own the land/housing between: people who want to live there, and people who want to rent it to tourists (lower investment than if you lived there and high+frequent demand). => there's also a shortage of hotels AND a temporary shortage of convenience (precisely where AirBnB thrives with VC money, in order to break and change the market - that's very intentional).

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#53

Post by jstanley »

fifnir wrote: post #34
openbasic wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, let's force citizens to bow to their government masters and pay their "fair" share, while Big Hotel lobbies away, competes unfairly and gets huge tax benefits.

Let's allow richer-than-us foreigners to come to our city, buy all the houses, and then keep them empty to make tax-free money through air-bnb. Fuck the locals, there's tourists that want to enjoy the sun in the summer and arabs that need to invest their petrol dollars.

> keep them empty to make tax-free money through air-bnb.

You don't make a lot of money through AirBnB if you are keeping the place empty.

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#54

Post by drstewart »

simias wrote: post #46
frontloadpro wrote: post #3

Edit, it was shut down because my local area has a rule against bed and breakfasts that aren't located on a main road. Our Airbnb got shut down after a year by the local government. It wasn't a safety thing, it was a competition thing. Our Red Roof Inn charges 60 a night, but we charged 80 a night. Our reviews could make me tear up. People saying they had the best stay of their life. Asking them what they wanted for…

There are many cities in Europe where AirBnB and similar services are a plague for locals. I'm sure it's great for tourists though. First we couldn't buy and we were forced to rent because wealthy folks would buy the real estate in bulk to rent it and/or use it as a speculative investment, driving prices up and making it unafordable. Now they don't even bother to rent it long-term to locals, they're better off puttin…

Sounds like an easy solution. Raze all the vacant hotels that surely have been put under by the lack of demand as it shifts to Airbnb and make those apartments you can buy instead.

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#55

Post by koboll »

duxup wrote: post #26

I lived a few doors down to someone who basically ran an ad hoc AirBnB ... before Airbnb. It was pretty terrible. Parties all the time, trash, they parked anywhere (in other people's driveways...) because there were likely no long term consequences for doing so, the folks staying there didn't care because why should they? I was on the association board, it's kinda thankless job as we had to deal with this house. We g…

>In the end it was just a horrible situation to open up what was a hotel, right in the middle of our association / neighborhood.

By joining a HOA, you've delegated away to the collective the right to dictate to your neighbors what they can and can't do with their own property. In your case, the system worked - because you are in a HOA. If people want to exert that kind of collectivist control over their neighbors, that's the kind of organization they should be buying homes in.

But outside of that structure, what gives someone the right to dictate to their neighbors what they can and can't do with their own property? All kinds of small businesses are routinely run out of residential zoned properties. "Renting a room" seems like the kind of small business that's ideal for this situation - it takes no more infrastructure to house a vacation rental than it does to house a longer-term resident. "Hotels" require employees and elevators and truckloads of supplies delivered weekly; vacation rentals have none of that, and so the comparison makes little sense beyond "they are noisy". Leaseholders can also throw parties and be disruptive; there is an existing legal process to deal with noise complaints.

This category of complaint seems like a thin veneer around the core of truth that people who sink a colossal chunk of their nest egg and future earnings into one asset are knee-jerk averse to anything perceived as a threat to it.

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#56

Post by braythwayt »

iandanforth wrote: post #37

This seems like an overly critical article. Zoning laws and NIMBY impulses should be fought tooth-and-nail and I'm glad Airbnb is doing so. The platform has allowed me to actually enjoy travel in ways I never could before. What I feel like is missing is a communication path from the community to the platform. Because people start by calling the police to complain it immediately becomes a legal and local ordinance iss…

Why should zoning laws be fought tooth-and-nail? If I buy a house in a neighbourhood full of single-family dwellings that are all one and two storeys high, should I be able to build a condo building on my land?

Can I open a nightclub in my house?

What about parking? Can I pave my front lawn and rent the space out as parking spots? Or maybe put a dumpster there for local businesses to put their trash in?

There's a tree on my boulevard. Can I cut the tree down and park a truck on the boulevard?

I decided to run a grow-op in my house. When I turn the electricity on, the lights fade in my neighbours houses because the load on my grow-up is so much bigger than the equipment is designed to support.

Tough luck for my neighbours, correct?

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#57

Post by dsfyu404ed »

matchbok wrote: post #22
frontloadpro wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is your profile littered with anti Airbnb comments?

Because my neighborhood is littered with mini-hotels and AirBnb encourages this behavior.

Are they bothering you more than non-registered cars in people's yards bothers the HOA type of people?

On some level people have the right to do whatever they please with their property. That's kind of the point of ownership to begin with.

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#58

Post by iandanforth »

duxup wrote: post #40
iandanforth wrote: post #37

This seems like an overly critical article. Zoning laws and NIMBY impulses should be fought tooth-and-nail and I'm glad Airbnb is doing so. The platform has allowed me to actually enjoy travel in ways I never could before. What I feel like is missing is a communication path from the community to the platform. Because people start by calling the police to complain it immediately becomes a legal and local ordinance iss…

>If it were easy to report abuses to Airbnb directly, or if local police were instructed to contact them, the platform could better regulate itself. I don't think Airbnb really cares to do that... and that kinda is where the problems start in terms of what Airbnb is really all about.

Hrm ... ok here's a specific change I'd like to see they have a "neighbors" portal. But if you try to input a complaint it's hard to find a listing nearby and they say

"If you can’t find the listing’s web address, enter the street address and we’ll try to locate the listing. In order to protect our hosts’ privacy, we won’t be able to confirm the existence of any Airbnb listings or follow up with you."

This supports your point and should be changed.

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#59

Post by CaptainZapp »

mbostleman wrote: post #24
matchbok wrote: post #15

AirBnb is a terrible, terrible company. Most of their money comes from corporate-owned mini-hotels yet they advertise as a mom and pop shop. At every turn their solution is to sue small towns and cities so they can continue to extract wealth from our neighborhoods. Disgusting.

What is a corporate owned mini-hotel? I am a fairly frequent Airbnb consumer and I have yet to stay somewhere that wasn't mom and pop.

Dozens or even hundreds of cheaply outfited cooky cutter apartments run by a management company.

I'd wager that's 80% of their business, nowadays.

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#60

Post by hannob »

I find it really unfortunate that the airbnb debate is always so polarized.

AirBNB has often provided me a better alternative to a largely terrible hotel market that often takes racket prices and makes me pay for services I don't need. On the other hand I completely understand when people are annoyed about party folk living in the flat above them or when they lack safety regulations or don't pay the same taxes hotels do.

But none of that justifies an outright ban, there should be solutions to regulate the bad while allowing the good. Make them pay hefty fees that they may pass on to their customers if they violate night rest times. Make them follow safety regulations and pay takes. (Yeah, that will make it more expensive, but I can still avoid paying for daily room service I want to opt out and sometimes even can't and 24/7 reception staff I don't need.)

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