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Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

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Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#71

This seems like an overly critical article. Zoning laws and NIMBY impulses should be fought tooth-and-nail and I'm glad Airbnb is doing so. The platform has allowed me to actually enjoy travel in ways I never could before. What I feel like is missing is a communication path from the community to the platform. Because people start by calling the police to complain it immediately becomes a legal and local ordinance iss…

>Because people start by calling the police to complain it immediately becomes a legal and local ordinance issue.

That's because in the kind of "upscale but not too upscale" kinds of places where AirBnB tends to flourish conflict resolution is such a lost art that calling the police on each other is what people do.

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#72

To be sure, these aren’t Airbnb’s taxes, any more than Hilton “pays” taxes for its guests’ hotel stays. Rather, the officials sparring with Airbnb want the company to collect and forward the taxes from guests, much as hotels do. So this is local governments trying to railroad an online information/marketplace/intermediation firm into becoming a tax collector. The local governments can't practically collect the taxes,…

> an online information/marketplace/intermediation firm

Well, there is what airbnb say it is, and what it really is in reality.

In a lot of places airbnb is a way to make big bucks via short term touristic rentals (coupled with no tax) instead of renting to actual people living in the city. This itself has creates many problems for local communities.

I've seen houses with 4-5 airbnb room and professional cleaners etc ... it's an hotel, minus the security, minus the insurances.

> Business models are changing along with the societal changes in communications technology.

The other way to interpret it is: "disrupting tech startups are destroying communities and local businesses, by creating / enabling tentacular monopolies which operate above the law".

How do you explain that airbnb payed less than 100k euros in 2016 in France, its 2nd biggest market at the time. [0]

All these companies are going through seriously sketchy processes to make money [1] [2] [3], they just transfer their costs and responsabilities to foreign countries, local communities or their own employees. These things might fly in the US/UK (and even there people are fighting) but they sure won't fly in a lot of EU countries.

[0] http://www.leparisien.fr/economie/airbnb-n-a-paye-que-92-944...

[1] https://techcrunch.com/2019/01/16/we-company-ceo-in-hot-wate...

[2] https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/nov/19/gig-economy...

[3] https://www.bbc.com/news/business-46018104

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#73

This seems like an overly critical article. Zoning laws and NIMBY impulses should be fought tooth-and-nail and I'm glad Airbnb is doing so. The platform has allowed me to actually enjoy travel in ways I never could before. What I feel like is missing is a communication path from the community to the platform. Because people start by calling the police to complain it immediately becomes a legal and local ordinance iss…

Why should zoning laws be fought tooth-and-nail? If I buy a house in a neighbourhood full of single-family dwellings that are all one and two storeys high, should I be able to build a condo building on my land? Can I open a nightclub in my house? What about parking? Can I pave my front lawn and rent the space out as parking spots? Or maybe put a dumpster there for local businesses to put their trash in? There's a tre…

Mostly correct. US zoning laws in particular are responsible for urban sprawl, separation of services from housing and the massive environmental impact that produces. Default mixed use is demonstrably more efficient use of land. Cleaver neighborhoods are toxic.

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#74
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are people using airbnbs as apartments? I don't see how it drives rent up. There's a finite amount of tourism/visitors so they should only be competing with hotels. What am I missing here? Edit: downvoted for asking a question you disagree with? What is this reddit?

> I don't see how it drives rent up. If entire apartments are made into AirBnbs, there's less apartments in the market which turns the prices up, what's so hard to grasp ?

And if Hotels close down due to AirBNBs there's more space for appartments where there once were hotels. If the AirBNBs take less space than the hotel they replace it's a win for appartments. If they cause more tourism it's a loss. What the overall effect is is far from clear, I haven't seen any thorough analysis on that.

It's naive to only look at one factor and ignore the others, yet that's often how far this debate goes.

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#75
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of cities where apartments have become AirBnBs, caused great disruption to their neighbours, and driven up rents. This has resulted in people demanding that Something Be Done.

Are people using airbnbs as apartments? I don't see how it drives rent up. There's a finite amount of tourism/visitors so they should only be competing with hotels. What am I missing here? Edit: downvoted for asking a question you disagree with? What is this reddit?

People are using apartments as AirBnBs. Whole-unit rental, keys on a coded box outside the door.

> There's a finite amount of tourism/visitors

Yes, but that could be much larger than the current level. A discussion in the context of Edinburgh: https://www.hotelmanagement.net/own/edinburgh-looks-to-limit...

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, let's force citizens to bow to their government masters and pay their "fair" share, while Big Hotel lobbies away, competes unfairly and gets huge tax benefits.

Yeah, let's force community residents to deal with noise and parties and the increased cost of housing brought by AirBnb while allowing AirBnb and their billionaire investors to make a lot of money while pushing off all the externalities on the communities.

I mean let’s be real: you described dozens of industries.

From sports teams to manufacturing, our industries are fueled by externalizing the costs (cleanup, infrastructure, social services, etc).

Locals need to collectively take back their agency in order for things to change. Stop manning their front desks, occupying their cubicles, leaving neighbors and families behind for long commutes on crumbling roads in tin cans.

Stay home and work together as neighbors.

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#77
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If it were easy to report abuses to Airbnb directly, or if local police were instructed to contact them, the platform could better regulate itself. I don't think Airbnb really cares to do that... and that kinda is where the problems start in terms of what Airbnb is really all about.

I'm the absolute last person to think that tech can be trusted to regulate itself for anything. We've seen how companies like Amazon and eBay cater to their power sellers, how social media caters to its advertisers, &c. &c. It would be delightful if AirBnB were to be the exception, but as Reagan(?) said, "Trust, but verify." Who does the verifying if we remove local government from oversight?

Yeah I agree.

1. I don't think Airbnb cares to do it at all.

2. It would be a very hard job even if they tried to do it.

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#78
post #26

I lived a few doors down to someone who basically ran an ad hoc AirBnB ... before Airbnb. It was pretty terrible. Parties all the time, trash, they parked anywhere (in other people's driveways...) because there were likely no long term consequences for doing so, the folks staying there didn't care because why should they? I was on the association board, it's kinda thankless job as we had to deal with this house. We g…

The article is essentially about tax authorities trying to offload their work on AirBnB. Irresponsible owners will not disappear if it happened.

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#79

AirBnb is a terrible, terrible company. Most of their money comes from corporate-owned mini-hotels yet they advertise as a mom and pop shop. At every turn their solution is to sue small towns and cities so they can continue to extract wealth from our neighborhoods. Disgusting.

There are not many "corporate-owned mini-hotels" but there are certainly hundreds of thousands of people that buy one or more apartments with the purpose of renting them out through AirBnB (or not sell apartments that they would otherwise have gotten rid off).

AirBnB doesn't make the little guy make a few extra bucks renting out a room as much as it makes those who already have money buy up studios and one bedroom apartments. The effect is that such apartments get more expensive for those who just need a place to live.

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#80

This seems like an overly critical article. Zoning laws and NIMBY impulses should be fought tooth-and-nail and I'm glad Airbnb is doing so. The platform has allowed me to actually enjoy travel in ways I never could before. What I feel like is missing is a communication path from the community to the platform. Because people start by calling the police to complain it immediately becomes a legal and local ordinance iss…

Why should zoning laws be fought tooth-and-nail? If I buy a house in a neighbourhood full of single-family dwellings that are all one and two storeys high, should I be able to build a condo building on my land? Can I open a nightclub in my house? What about parking? Can I pave my front lawn and rent the space out as parking spots? Or maybe put a dumpster there for local businesses to put their trash in? There's a tre…

>Why should zoning laws be fought tooth-and-nail?

Because infringing on people's right to do what they want with their property deserves a hell of a lot more scrutiny than it gets right now. Trying to centrally manage what can be done where doesn't scale. See SF housing prices.

>Can I open a nightclub in my house?

As long as it meets the standards that night clubs have to meet then sure. You're unlikely to be able to do these things and be commercially successful enough to subsity in primarily residential area.

>What about parking? Can I pave my front lawn and rent the space out as parking spots? Or maybe put a dumpster there for local businesses to put their trash in?

Sure. Just be aware that you might be on the hook if you do a half-assed paving job and the runoff affects your neighbors. Once again if you truly are in a residential area where this kind of thing is not appropriate you will have a hard time being successful enough at it to annoy anyone who isn't already annoyed by everything.

>There's a tree on my boulevard. Can I cut the tree down and park a truck on the boulevard?

This is more complicated because you get into right of way issues and the city usually has a pretty substantial right of way beside the road (sidewalk?) but sure, if none of that is an issue then feel free to cut it down.

>I decided to run a grow-op in my house. When I turn the electricity on, the lights fade in my neighbours houses because the load on my grow-up is so much bigger than the equipment is designed to support.

If the power company was worried about QoS to the other customers on the street they wouldn't give you the massive breaker you need for that operation. If the neighbors are really bothered by it they can complain to the power company and if they complain enough then it will get addressed. There is no need for laws for this sort of thing. Once again if you're really in a residential area you're unlikely to get that kind of service if you really are somewhere it would be a problem. The power company has internal rules about what service gets installed where (basically their own zoning) in order to ensure that breakers on bigger equipment upstream are not tripped during times of peak load.

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