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Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

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Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#141
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nevermind that we are already in a world where you can play any song you like from the wireless computer you carry in your pocket. That's not convenient enough. /s

That pocket computer also has all the same potential threats to privacy. Somehow nobody cares about them, though.

Aside from cell tower location tracking, you’d know because it would absolutely tank the battery life of your pocket computer.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#142
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That pocket computer also has all the same potential threats to privacy. Somehow nobody cares about them, though.

That pocket computer can be programed to listen, or not. The whole point of these cylinders is to be listening at all times.

Can you? I'm not a tinfoil hat, but the echo is only listening when you address it. It also has a physical mic kill switch, but you don't really know that either mic is not live at any time.

My guess is they mostly do work that way but bugs and vulnerabilities don't seem like a stretch. (As is to be expected with all software)

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#143
post #109
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a massive difference between walking a few steps to turn on a light switch (which is only useful when you are in close proximity) vs having a accurate real-time mapping functionality when on the go. Similarly, there is a massive difference in the privacy implications of listening to every conversation everyone in your home (including guests) is having vs. having your current location known. Wiretapping laws…

Turning off all the light switches that have been left on in a big house though is a meaningful convenience. I think the privacy point is strong enough without having to trash people's use cases.

No trashing it at all, just contrasting it. I do see the convenience (luxury) of home automation, but when you compare that against accurate mobile mapping, location finding and navigation, the difference in usefulness is orders of magnitude. One can literally save your life.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#144

People are volunteerelly paying for their houses to be tapped for the convenience of being able to shout: play me some song. I’m so out of touch with this world it’s scary.

Reminds me of one of my favorite memes: [1]

- people in the sixties: "the government will wiretap your home"

- people now: "hey wiretap, can cats eat pancakes?"

[1] https://imgur.com/gallery/QFjXc

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#145
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you notice that it randomly fades out and then fades back in every few hours? I don't understand why it does that.

Is it pulling a track from their music archives? Maybe it’s just a several hour long loop and the date is when it repeats.

Yeah, that is kinda my guess, but it doesn't seem to be predictable... sometimes it happens within a few minutes, other times it takes an hour or more.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#146
I wonder how similar this is to https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~sbhagava/papers/face-rec-ccs16.pdf ?

That's the "Facial recognition fooled by funny-colored glasses" study from Carngie Mellon, where researchers were able to make machine learning algorithms fail disastrously (e.g. mistake a man for Milla Jovovich) with a pair of glasses printed with what looks like a random assortment of colorful pixels, but is in fact a targeted attack specifically designed to trick the algorithm.

This Alexa failure is obviously not a targeted attack; but when your system is exposed to enough data, eventually you will stumble over some input that happens to resemble a targeted attack by pure chance, right? It's equivalent to saying that if you aimed the facial recognition algos in that paper at millions of faces wearing randomly-colored glasses, eventually some of the glasses would be close enough to the targeted-attack glasses to produce the same effect.

Obviously I'm theorizing on almost no data here - I don't know anything about Alexa's voice recognition, maybe it contains no ML at all. But it seems plausible that this might be what happened here - not a bug per se, but the natural and totally expected result of giving an opaque, machine-generated system with a very low failure rate so much input data that the failure rate is significant.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#147

I feel creeped out by these home listening devices and I don't own one, but don't our phones already have this capability? You can turn "Ok Google" on on an android phone. I sometimes record audio, and the mic is incredibly good. Is there a substantial difference between our phones and these devices? EDIT: Just realized the substantial difference is that Google and Amazon own all of these things. They don't control a…

Not sure about Android phones with "Ok Google" but on iOS, all of Siri's voice processing is on the device. As opposed to Amazon Alexa which sends the data to the cloud for processing.

I don't think this is true. I think they upload the audio to the cloud to process, but it's not linked to your user ID, only to the device ID.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#148

People are volunteerelly paying for their houses to be tapped for the convenience of being able to shout: play me some song. I’m so out of touch with this world it’s scary.

I like the idea, but wonder if the same features are possible on a stand alone tool. For example, the device does the NLP there on the premise. It exposes a plugin API for apps. The app gets the text translation by registering a callback URI. Then it can do want ever it wants with that. Expose a streaming receiver api for music. Essential get rid of the middle man service. Is this possible of a Pi?

Sure. Have a look at Snips [0], Mycroft [1], Jasper [2] or Adrian [3] which are all open source home assistant devices with voice activation, although some do use Googles NLP cloud APIs for speech processing. Snips seems the most interesting, but looks terrible - a bare PCB on your wall? Really?

0. https://snips.ai/

1. https://mycroft.ai/

2. http://jasperproject.github.io/

3. http://www.theadrianproject.com/

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#149

I have this idea of a system I would like to have in my house. It contains cameras in every room that are constantly watching where people are and relaying the coordinates to a central server. That server makes decisions on if lights should be on or if A/C should be running in that room. But I would never buy this system. I would have to make it myself. I am hopeful that open source software and hardware can produce…

Even if you build it, knowing guest may never feel completely comfortable visiting your house.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#150

What actually happened: Alexa misinterpreted some voice commands and activated a "call" skill. The people involved and local news got very excited and escalated this into a conspiracy story. Amazon takes customer privacy EXTREMELY seriously. There's no way a team would get the "ok" to build a skill that randomly records private conversations then sends them to a random contact. It also doesn't make any logical sense…

The obvious, predictable and serious screwup occurs and people shrug it off. Engineers from Amazon post how it's all a regrettable mistake and it won't happen again. I am not gonna unload on you specifically here, but if you could maybe pass along to whoever is making business and product decisions over there that yeah, maybe 80% are stupid enough to buy this crap, but there are a huge number of people that are extremely creeped out by this and avoid it like the plague. That deafening silence you here from them should not be interpreted as license to push the boundary even further.

If there was an Alexa in my place of residence, I would rip it out of the wall, smash it to bits with a hammer, and fire it out of a cannon into the sun.

Hell no to this crap from my side. I hope there are more incidents like this until people wake up to the fact they are putting telescreens in their homes. You guys can't be trusted!

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