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Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

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Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#41

Post by simion314 »

imrehg wrote: post #21
kinsomo wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This devices should by law always have a big LED on when recording And the LED should be forbidden by law from being software-controlled. They should also have a physical inline toggle switch to disconnect the microphone(s) entirely, whose state is easy to visually confirm.

I wonder how would you even do that? It's not a tape recorder, where someone has to physically press a button, there are no moving parts, thus it must be software controlled.

I think is possible though I am not an electrical engineer, you can have one LED on if the microphone has power(so you can't be tricked is off) you can have an LED for the networking device, but now considering that the microphone is always on it won't be as useful,

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#42

Post by derefr »

Someone1234 wrote: post #20
simion314 wrote: post #12

This devices should by law always have a big LED on when recording, you would have the option to set it's brightness though. Also why could it send data out without any confirmation from the user.

What does "recording" mean in this context? The way these devices work is they're always "recording" in a loop on a secondary processor looking for the wake word. If we take this request literally the LED would never be off.

Presumably, it would mean "when anything other than that secondary processor comes on." I.e., when it stops throwing away the buffer containing your speech at a hardware level, and starts instead feeding it through its local parsers and to the cloud in a way that could result in information from your speech being captured.

That would require, though, that it's not buffering the last N seconds of audio to reprocess once that processor wakes up. Do any/all of the modern smart-speaker devices do that? If so, then you'd have to take into account that when you see the light, you've potentially leaked any secrets you said in the last N seconds as well. Less like a reporter coming in and asking to speak to you; more like an eavesdropper coming in and telling you they heard what you were just saying through the door.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#43

Post by williamscales »

tambourine_man wrote: post #30

People are volunteerelly paying for their houses to be tapped for the convenience of being able to shout: play me some song. I’m so out of touch with this world it’s scary.

Nevermind that we are already in a world where you can play any song you like from the wireless computer you carry in your pocket. That's not convenient enough.

/s

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#44

Post by Keyframe »

imrehg wrote: post #21
kinsomo wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This devices should by law always have a big LED on when recording And the LED should be forbidden by law from being software-controlled. They should also have a physical inline toggle switch to disconnect the microphone(s) entirely, whose state is easy to visually confirm.

I wonder how would you even do that? It's not a tape recorder, where someone has to physically press a button, there are no moving parts, thus it must be software controlled.

Just one example, separate memory for storing said data, which when accessed in write mode (current line or write enable low voltage signal for writing to DRAM) activates LED as well. Or, again if DRAM, DQ pins and monitor for voltage high. I'm sure there are a dozen of ways to do it in hardware like that. Maybe someone with more knowledge can chime in.

Doing it via microphone/amp wouldn't do it, since you'd still want to use it without LED on (and not software controlled).

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#45

Post by DiabloD3 »

So when will such devices just be made illegal entirely? It doesn't seem they can be made to be safe for average people if stuff like this keeps happening and companies are unwilling to compensate people.

What if this was a lawyer talking about clients or a doctor talking about patients? Is Amazon (or Google, or Microsoft) willing to deal with such legal liabilities? Is this what move fast and break things looks like?

Edit: To those trying to downvote, remember, the Silicon Valley lives in a bubble, and for the safety of people inside and outside of the bubble, the bubble must be poked every so often. This is one of those times.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#46

Post by simion314 »

wooter wrote: post #32
kinsomo wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This devices should by law always have a big LED on when recording And the LED should be forbidden by law from being software-controlled. They should also have a physical inline toggle switch to disconnect the microphone(s) entirely, whose state is easy to visually confirm.

great way to just have companies add an annoying, always on LED, that wastes energy to avoid lawsuits. how about we let the market regulate, as it is doing currently. did amazon respond faster than the government has on surveillance? yes. should companies that don't abuse their power/neglect their software be punished for all eternity because of amazon's actions? i think not.

Do you also get mad for the LED in your TV,router and monitor, that shows the device is in stand by or on? I t would be a small one and you should have an hardware slider for brightness , you could also tape it off

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#47

Post by dpark »

rolha-capoeira wrote: post #25
imrehg wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how would you even do that? It's not a tape recorder, where someone has to physically press a button, there are no moving parts, thus it must be software controlled.

I assume they mean that the light should not be accessible to software, just wired so that "if camera is on, light is on"

Which means the light is always on. The device must be listening or the wake word won't work.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#48

Post by virmundi »

tambourine_man wrote: post #30

People are volunteerelly paying for their houses to be tapped for the convenience of being able to shout: play me some song. I’m so out of touch with this world it’s scary.

I like the idea, but wonder if the same features are possible on a stand alone tool. For example, the device does the NLP there on the premise. It exposes a plugin API for apps. The app gets the text translation by registering a callback URI. Then it can do want ever it wants with that. Expose a streaming receiver api for music. Essential get rid of the middle man service.

Is this possible of a Pi?

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#49

Post by DiabloD3 »

kinsomo wrote: post #38
imrehg wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how would you even do that? It's not a tape recorder, where someone has to physically press a button, there are no moving parts, thus it must be software controlled.

> where someone has to physically press a button, there are no moving parts, thus it must be software controlled. If the microphone uses an amplifier, you could wire an LED to light when power is supplied to the amp. The indicator light is physically part of the circuit, so its operation cannot be modified by software. There are probably other, better, ways to do it, I'm not an electronics guy.

Due to watchword detection, the microphone amp would always be on.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#50

Post by asn0 »

iooi wrote: post #23

How soon until Amazon starts sending the private conversations of people discussing illegal things directly to law enforcement? It will be pretty easy to justify by bringing up bomb threats, but it would mostly be people buying/using drugs.

Amazon could add this to the suite of law enforcement products they've already been selling[1]

1. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/22/technology/amazon-facial-...

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