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China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

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Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#141

Post by Hupriene »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #136
coldtea wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's amazing to me how China is so effectively creating a 1984-type situation without much stir among the rest of the world. This is perhaps because of several things: 1) That's the way "the rest of the world's" governments and corporate interests want their own countries to go, and have been pushing towards since decades. The rest of the world's leaders (most of them) could not care less for the lip service they p…

Don't disagree with you that nobody else is very different. Way too many "progressive" "change the world" techies are willing to get into bed with governments like this as long as they are making money. It's sickening. Where you are wrong is the suggestion that this isn't entirely different. People bitch about US policy all the time . 50% of the political discussion on HN is bitching about US policy. I can't blame an…

> Way too many "progressive" "change the world" techies are willing to get into bed with governments like this as long as they are making money. It's sickening.

Hey, gotta enhance shareholder value, man.. Fiduciary responsibility and all that.

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#142

Post by dragonwriter »

jakecrouch wrote: post #62

This is why the US should not worry about China as a long-term economic threat - authoritarianism has never worked. The Soviet Union, 1930s Germany and Italy, all collapsed. I think the Chinese realize this and are pessemistic about their own future. The Constitution was designed to make the US Government as weak as possible, because a strong government ultimately turns on its people.

> The Constitution was designed to make the US Government as weak as possible, because a strong government ultimately turns on its people.

This is false, though it's a popular modern myth; the whole reason for the Constitutional Convention was to strengthen the government under the Articles of Confederation to address problems caused by it's weakness, and the framers decided they needed to go a lot further than minor tweaks in doing that, sure some of them wanted to go even farther—Hamilton proposed an elective monarchy, for instance—but even the more modest final outcome was neither in intent or fact “as weak as possible.”

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#143

Post by martimarkov »

phyller wrote: post #48
cornholio wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One should asume "pro-China" means against dictatorship and presidents for life, right? There is no people or culture on Earth that stands to gain from oligarchy.

I'm an American, I've had many close Chinese friends. What follows is completely anecdotal, but I've spent a lot of time trying to wrap my mind around it, for what it is worth. Our cultures are incredibly different. At the same time our cultures are both unusually strong. And for some reason, part of American culture seems to be assuming everyone in the world is just like us, just in different circumstances. This is…

So if this is true and the majority of Chinese people don’t have freedom as a basic value then there is no reason to opress it. If they truly believed in the values and ideas you expressed there is no reason to opress free speech or am I missing something? (Genuine question)

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#144

Post by trevyn »

phyller wrote: post #28

It's amazing to me how China is so effectively creating a 1984-type situation without much stir among the rest of the world. These chat programs are super important for everyday life in China. The same company that provides chatting also provides your ability to pay for everything, and a credit score that determines what you can buy, how much you pay, and more. So if you say something you shouldn't, this could very e…

>can easily make it so you can't buy things anymore

This actually happened to me on a small scale with a legitimate US company, as a US citizen placing a legitimate order. The company deals in high-fraud-risk physical goods, their system decided that I was a high fraud risk, and outright banned me for life. I would have been happy to provide any kind of ID, sent them cash in the mail, whatever. But nope, banned for life, end of story. Truly a bizarre, bizarre experience.

After their support line was no help, I emailed their CEO with no response so far. Their investors are up next.

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#145

Post by Passthepeas »

mygo wrote: post #127
coldtea wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's amazing to me how China is so effectively creating a 1984-type situation without much stir among the rest of the world. This is perhaps because of several things: 1) That's the way "the rest of the world's" governments and corporate interests want their own countries to go, and have been pushing towards since decades. The rest of the world's leaders (most of them) could not care less for the lip service they p…

It’s amazing to me that the argument of “don’t go after those guys for what they are doing when those other guys are doing bad things too” never dies. Even with all of its blatant fallacy. It will persist until the end of time. And solve nothing.

I think it does more to illustrate hypocrisy and priorities than anything; it's like worrying about another driver's flat tire, when your own car is literally on fire. Though I do understand and agree with your overall sentiment.

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#146

Post by tonylinn80 »

yusuke10 wrote: post #71
phyller wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an American, I've had many close Chinese friends. What follows is completely anecdotal, but I've spent a lot of time trying to wrap my mind around it, for what it is worth. Our cultures are incredibly different. At the same time our cultures are both unusually strong. And for some reason, part of American culture seems to be assuming everyone in the world is just like us, just in different circumstances. This is…

Alot of the opposite is true. Alot of the Chinese old timers remember the brutality they suffered under Mao and are very upset at this current event. Many of them want to sell their factories and move the money to HK (and eventually out of China).

What you said is also true. The opinions of Chinese immigrants differs a lot based on when they immigrated out of China. Was it 70s, 80s, or 90s?

People immigrated out before 90s tends to be more pro-democracy. (At least from my impression)

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#147

Post by elago »

mygo wrote: post #127
coldtea wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's amazing to me how China is so effectively creating a 1984-type situation without much stir among the rest of the world. This is perhaps because of several things: 1) That's the way "the rest of the world's" governments and corporate interests want their own countries to go, and have been pushing towards since decades. The rest of the world's leaders (most of them) could not care less for the lip service they p…

It’s amazing to me that the argument of “don’t go after those guys for what they are doing when those other guys are doing bad things too” never dies. Even with all of its blatant fallacy. It will persist until the end of time. And solve nothing.

As a US citizen it is a valid argument because those "other guys" is our own country.

It's not "don't go after those guys", but "take care of our own problems first". This way, when offering solutions to other oppressive countries we wouldn't look like hypocrites.

Would you believe a massively obese and sickly person telling you the importance of diet and exercise?

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#148

Post by balthasar »

ilamont wrote: post #91
balthasar wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Typo there with Chavez? Democratically elected and rose the quality of life of Venezuela.

Hitler came to power on top of a democratic system, too (IIRC, by leveraging political alliances and grassroots violence in the pre-1933 parliamentary system). He surely improved the quality of life for the Nazi base in the mid-30s after he took power. Didn't stop him from dismantling democratic institutions, eliminating all political rivals, invading his neighbors, and murdering millions of people.

Chavez did none of these things. Is your knowledge of history so shallow that you must bring up Hitler appro to nothing every chance that you get?

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#149

Post by merpnderp »

ender89 wrote: post #106
ilamont wrote: post #18

I have one Chinese friend who employs a double entendre, calling him "Xitler" In all seriousness, this is a black period for Chinese people and China's neighbors. The fledgling democracy in Hong Kong, and democratic nations around China's periphery including Taiwan, Japan, Nepal, and India should be very wary dealing with a strongman who will stop at nothing to further his power and nationalism-focused legacy.

Japan has nothing to worry about. The Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security Between the United States and Japan, signed after WWII, basically means that Japan AND THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA are responsible to ensure the national security of Japan (It's actually mutual with the understanding that the Japanese constitution forbids deploying armed forces abroad). In other words, if china is actually aggressive tow…

And Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons with the understanding the US would ensure Russia never invaded. How did that work out for them?

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#150

Post by losteric »

Passthepeas wrote: post #145
mygo wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s amazing to me that the argument of “don’t go after those guys for what they are doing when those other guys are doing bad things too” never dies. Even with all of its blatant fallacy. It will persist until the end of time. And solve nothing.

I think it does more to illustrate hypocrisy and priorities than anything; it's like worrying about another driver's flat tire, when your own car is literally on fire. Though I do understand and agree with your overall sentiment.

On the other hand, it's reasonable to worry about another driver's car being on fire despite your own flat tire.
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