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Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology

pnas.org

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Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology

#141

Post by Shank »

shock wrote: post #21
jtmarmon wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what P-values are for

Perhaps explain how P-values are to be used in this case, for the lay of us.

A p-value in a test statistic is the probability that the result of the test statistic could have been achieved through random data variations. A p-value is described in tandem with an alpha level, the minimum acceptable value to reject the null hypothesis in the test statistic.

In short: typical alpha is 0.05, so a p-value Take everything with a grain of salt, though. Low sample sizes dramatically change how test statistics produce results. P-value hacking is the practice of eliminating data from an experiment to produce statistically significant results or otherwise altering the data by adding buffers to ensure that a result confirms a belief a researcher has.

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology

#142

Post by scoggs »

manyxcxi wrote: post #79
fencepost wrote: post #13

Okay, so ibuprofen impacts testicular function, acetaminophen/paracetamol causes muting of emotional response (along with the liver toxicity), many other painkillers are related to ibuprofen, and opiates are Right Out. Is aspirin at least reasonably safe as long as the blood thinning isn't a problem?

I can’t take Ibuprofen (or any typical NSAIDS including aspirin) because of a medical condition, which has sucked over the last decade because acetaminophen really doesn’t help me at all when I’m excruciatingly sore for whatever reason. In Oregon and Washington, where I’ve lived for pretty much my entire life, legal marijuana has been amazingly helpful, at least since I finally got around to trying it. The various pr…

>he didn’t just bless the idea, he practically endorsed it as a “still emerging but very likely positive course of treatment” in his words.

I love it! It's really sad and fucked up watching the federal government flail around trying to say otherwise. Meanwhile, they are getting all of their ducks in a row to ensure they can profit off of full on recreational legalization when that time comes. Between this issue and the healthcare issues it's terribly obvious the citizen's health and best interest is not first or maybe even second in order of importance to these people.

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology

#143

Post by arkades »

Hello71 wrote: post #140
arkades wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All stomach effects are due to decreased prostaglandin levels. All NSAIDs function through inhibition of prostaglandin synthesis. The exception is Tylenol/acetaminophen, as it doesn’t have an anti-inflammatory effect / doesn’t seem to act primarily on COX1/2. It’s currently popular to bandy about the theory that it targets spinal COX3.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonsteroidal_anti-inflammatory... : "NSAIDs cause a dual assault on the GI tract: the acidic molecules directly irritate the gastric mucosa, and inhibition of COX-1 and COX-2 reduces the levels of protective prostaglandins" (emphasis added)

Aspirin and many other nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs), (eg, ibuprofen, naproxen, indomethacin, and ketorolac) are carboxylic acids. Their pKa values range from 3.50 (aspirin) to 4.85 (ibuprofen). As such, they are not ionized at the acidic pH found in the gastric lumen and thus can be absorbed across the gastric mucosa. Once these drugs move from the acidic environment of the gastric lumen into the pH–neutral mucosa, the drugs ionize and are trapped temporarily in epithelial cells where it may damage these cells. How important is this effect? Calcium carbsalasate does not have this epithelium damaging topical effect, but causes the same ulcerative outcome[1].

This "topical" epithelial injury by many NSAIDs does not appear to be of prime importance in the pathogenesis of clinically important endpoints (symptomatic ulcers). The pathogenesis of symptomatic peptic ulcer disease caused by repeated exposure to NSAIDs is mainly a consequence of systemic (post-absorptive) inhibition of gastrointestinal mucosal cyclo-oxygenase (COX) activity. Even intravenous or intramuscular administration of aspirin or NSAIDs can cause gastric or duodenal ulcers in animals and humans [2].

PMIDs: 1 - 18242146 (“The incidence rate of peptic ulcer disease is similar in patients using low-dose effervescent calcium carbasalate compared with regular low-dose acetylsalicylic acid. This implicates that peptic ulcers seem to be related to systemic rather than to local effects of low-dose acetylsalicylic acid.”) 2 - 631484 (“These studies show that when the stomach is acidified by giving histamine intravenously or HCl intragastrically, intravenous aspirin produces large deep gastric ulcers.”)

The above is a partial paraphrase from UpToDate.

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology

#144

Post by guitarbill »

pas wrote: post #137
disconnected wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I think "painful initiation ritual", I think "glove made out of bullet ants" [1] not "organized sporting event in which everyone is wearing armor and hurting someone badly is grounds for stopping the game and rushing him/her to the hospital". Even if you pick something like Boxing or similar contact sports where the goal is to intentionally hurt your opponent, it is still a far-cry from sticking your hand into a…

Isn't that inferal tree in Australia more painful?

Pedantic: it's a tree so it doesn't bite? But yeah, the gympie gympie [0] sounds horrible - potentially too horrible/long-lasting effects for a rite of passage? Luckily, it's in Australia!

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dendrocnide_moroides

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology

#145

Post by edmccard »

MollyR wrote: post #3

It would be mind boggling if pain killers were connected to dropping male fertility. It might even explain why so many cultures had rites to male adulthood involving extreme pain.

>It might even explain why so many cultures had rites to male adulthood involving extreme pain.

Unless you believe that the rites were created to address the problem of "one day, there will be analgesics with antiandrogen effects, so we'll have a few centuries of practice at enduring extreme pain", then I don't see how there could be any connection.

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology

#146

Post by sov »

3pt14159 wrote: post #130
sov wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not entirely true and doesn't really convey the right message about p-values or study size. P-hacking and selection bias are definite concerns, but they're also concerns for studies with 200, or more, participants. Rather, we should put more of an emphasis on the statistical power of the study. We're not yet in the beautiful golden world of pre-registered studies, but even high-n studies can have huge disparit…

I'm essentially right. Studies with less than 200 people are essentially useless. It is more complicated than I originally let on, but not so much more complicated to muck up the takeaway. Most of our junk science has to do with these low population studies or with studies simultaneously studying high numbers of attributes.

Err, I don't quite agree with your description. The takeaway from your post was that low-n is worthless and high-n is ineffable, full stop. The size of the trial has very little to do with whether or not we are to believe the results insofar as it affects its statistical power. The fact that p-hacking and selection bias exist doesn't immediately imply that low-n studies are wrong. Those aren't problems unique to small sample size studies. For sure, statistical power isn't the catch-all thing to examine either--rather, pre-registration of studies would alleviate a great deal of falsities, but none of any of this has to do strictly with low sample size trials as your post implies.

Let's say the drug studied was a guaranteed 100% limb regenerative drug for amputees. Would you really require a 200 person study to prove that Examplinol successfully regenerates limbs? I hope the answer to that is "obviously not; it will be very clear whether or not it works with a low sample size." Of course, how would we change the study if it wasn't supposed to work in 100% of people? What if Sample Pharmaceuticals indicated that it only worked for 50% of people? Or 10%? Or 1%? Would it suffice to use 200 people each trial?

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology

#147

Post by dogma1138 »

TylerE wrote: post #129
rincebrain wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Naproxen is OTC in the US, as Aleve, but you need a prescription for higher doses, like with ibuprofen.

That sort of logic has never made sense to me. It's as if the regulators think people would never take more than one at a time.

You can’t buy more than 2 packs of 200-250mg ibo in the UK at the time, and only one pack of anything higher, doses above 500mg require a prescription.

Prescription Ibo can be 2000-5000mg per pill so yes it does reduce the risk.

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology

#148

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

chrsstrm wrote: post #111
TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Infrequent, occasional use of opiates, for two or three days shouldn't be a problem. You do have to make a bit of an effort to get addicted to opiates, insofar as taking a pill a day for a couple of weeks constitutes effort .

I had seemed to think that 10 days was the threshold but it turns out to be half that - http://www.newsweek.com/cdc-opiate-addiction-572498

Great reference, thanks!

From the link you provided:

According to the report, the transition from an initial prescription to chronic use begins very early on. Even a one-day opioid prescription carried a 6 percent risk of use at one year later and a 2.9 percent risk of use at three years later. The sharpest increases in the likelihood of long-term use came at five days after the initial prescription, with another spike seen at one month.

Whoa! That's frightening.

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology

#149

Post by darpa_escapee »

manyxcxi wrote: post #79
fencepost wrote: post #13

Okay, so ibuprofen impacts testicular function, acetaminophen/paracetamol causes muting of emotional response (along with the liver toxicity), many other painkillers are related to ibuprofen, and opiates are Right Out. Is aspirin at least reasonably safe as long as the blood thinning isn't a problem?

I can’t take Ibuprofen (or any typical NSAIDS including aspirin) because of a medical condition, which has sucked over the last decade because acetaminophen really doesn’t help me at all when I’m excruciatingly sore for whatever reason. In Oregon and Washington, where I’ve lived for pretty much my entire life, legal marijuana has been amazingly helpful, at least since I finally got around to trying it. The various pr…

I use CBD infrequently for pain.

Chronic high CBD usage will result in withdrawal upon cessation.

The 5HT1A agonism aspect of CBD makes for a particularly bleak and anxiety ridden withdrawal.

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