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Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

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Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#141

Post by plorkyeran »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #60
classybull wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I enjoy them. It strikes me as extremely odd that the main complaint against open floor plans is that they kill productivity. This is such a complaint that there's people up and down this post moaning in agony as if it were literal torture that they're unable to be as productive as possible. Personally, I don't think that a company is entitled to me working at 100% productivity constantly, because I value my sanity t…

Disclaimer: I'll tell you how it is in my case, so it may not reflect the feelings of other open-plan-haters. It's not about wanting to "be able to produce more for my corporate overlord". It's precisely about preserving sanity. I simply can't focus well with people around me - not just when they're talking (in an open plan, at any given point in time, there is someone that has something interesting to say). The very…

This is exactly how it is for me. Even when I actively thought my job was stupid bullshit and that no amount of work from me or anyone else would ever make the thing we were working on profitable or useful to anyone, feeling like I could be getting more done if it wasn't for all these distractions was a huge source of stress for me. The fact that there was no material difference to me or anyone else was ultimately sort of irrelevant.

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#142

Post by Grue3 »

classybull wrote: post #42
dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a great idea - as there are very few these companies, their ads would stand out. Honestly, I don't know one single developer who loves open-plan places and wouldn't like to have a quiet room to work in. Most just wear headphones and try to eliminate cognitive noise in every way they can.

I enjoy them. It strikes me as extremely odd that the main complaint against open floor plans is that they kill productivity. This is such a complaint that there's people up and down this post moaning in agony as if it were literal torture that they're unable to be as productive as possible. Personally, I don't think that a company is entitled to me working at 100% productivity constantly, because I value my sanity t…

>Yet, here are people begging, pleading for their employer to make them be able to produce more for their corporate overlord.

That's not the point. Let's say I need to produce 80 UP (utility points) per day to be considered an average value producer. If I produce significantly less than that, I'm fired. Now let's assume I can do 10 UP per hour in open office plan, and 20 UP when left alone. In an open office plan I need to completely devote every single hour of my work day to producing UP. In a private office, I can only work for 4 hours per day to meet my daily quota. I can do whatever I want the rest of the time. More productivity = work less! That's what we want.

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#143

Post by nfriedly »

sogen wrote: post #138
nfriedly wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The crime rate is so low that the town closed the police department a few years ago. (Now we contract with the sheriff.) I think I've locked my house twice in four years. We do usually get a couple of good snows each winter.

Thanks!, last question, how's the tech employment in there? Which TBH doesn't really matter since i like to work remotely.

Yea, there isn't much in Pleasant Hill. There's an Air Force base, a couple of hospitals, a couple of software/web agencies, and a few other things around Dayton, though.

I work remotely for IBM, and also have a side business that's mostly wound down now.

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#144

Post by concede_pluto »

classybull wrote: post #42
dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a great idea - as there are very few these companies, their ads would stand out. Honestly, I don't know one single developer who loves open-plan places and wouldn't like to have a quiet room to work in. Most just wear headphones and try to eliminate cognitive noise in every way they can.

I enjoy them. It strikes me as extremely odd that the main complaint against open floor plans is that they kill productivity. This is such a complaint that there's people up and down this post moaning in agony as if it were literal torture that they're unable to be as productive as possible. Personally, I don't think that a company is entitled to me working at 100% productivity constantly, because I value my sanity t…

If writing code paid no better than flipping burgers, I would still do it, because I enjoy efficiently solving challenging algorithm problems. I don't enjoy failing to solve them because I'm continually being prevented from remembering something clever I just thought of. If I only get to spend a couple of hours in the zone where I belong, either I'm in the wrong role or the wrong industry.

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#145

Post by twiceaday »

acty1 wrote: post #87

Once you work remotely (and you have your own office, in your own house) you feel bad, terribly sorry for anyone that stays in an open office "cultured" tech company making 200k+ per year. The quality of life and lack of freedom you exchange for the "next 100k" above and beyond a 100k base Salary is never worth it. Time and health is your most precious resource and asset. And many are deluded into thinking it's ok to…

How much of the first 100k do you save for retirement? Because the “next” 100k can all be saved and invested. I would rather retire 2-3x sooner than work forever from home.

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#146

Post by CydeWeys »

andrewflnr wrote: post #122
piquadrat wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate? As someone eyeing (sorry) a Lasik operation in the not-to-distant future, I'm genuinely interested.

It looks like it used to banned for NASA astronauts. That's the best I can find in a few minutes. It's hard for me to imagine an issue for commercial space travel. Edit: forgot my link: https://www.wired.com/2007/09/nasa-approves-a/

Looks like my info is a bit out of date. Thanks for the link!

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#147

Post by wpietri »

maxxxxx wrote: post #48
wpietri wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having worked for years in a pair programming environment, I am pretty sure you can get a lot of code written collaboratively. Indeed, even though I'm an introvert, pair programming teams with frequent pair rotation (pairing with 2-3 people per day) is my favorite way to work because I think we end up with better code.

Pair programming is fine. It's real collaboration. But just sitting in one big room while doing their own work is not collaboration.

Sure, I totally agree. I was responding to the introduced false dichotomy: collaborating vs writing the code.

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#148

Post by flachsechs »

rndmswethrwawy wrote: post #130
flachsechs wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (hint: it's not when taking taxes, commute and accomodation into account) this is important to keep in mind. the people who are the true high earners are making 500k+, sometimes married to someone else who also does. the real outliers make millions. they are the ones buying multi-$million houses in the bay area, LA, NY, etc. it's not mysterious overseas chinese and arab buyers. it's high earning americans taking ho…

As a software engineer, a moderate amount of luck (passing the bar at Google, Microsoft, Facebook, etc.) combined with an aggressive stance toward your comp can absolutely take you from the $100k to $500k+ range. You will have to work for it, AND you'll have to ask for it, but it can be done. I am the typical "leaned to program as a kid in the 80s/90s" engineer. Knew C when starting college, went to a state school fo…

i sincerely congratulate you, but my point stands ("or were simply granted some kind of employee stock"); that $500k is with generous equity compensation, and you are one of the lucky few who was able to get it, thereby probably doubling your compensation from a base salary of 200-something.

the vast majority of people do not get that kind of stock, the ones who are conned into over-working for their low-six figure jobs (you clearly do not suffer from this, and have avoided being dumb with your time and compensation).

unless i am mis-reading your post.

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#149

Post by maxxxxx »

adamnemecek wrote: post #74
vslira wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this may sound like a poor substitute to private corporate space, but I can't praise enough the combination of noise reducing earplugs and active noise cancelling over earphones. This combo plus somafm and a pomodoro timer app can instantly boost my productivity

It's not just the noise. You as a human are wired to process movement around you. This takes mental energy.

True. When I am really focused on my work I often get startled when someone approaches me or even when someone just walks by.

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#150

Post by hkmurakami »

justherefortart wrote: post #40
heisenbit wrote: post #4

Steve Jobs is said to have poured in a lot of thought on how the architecture of the building is supporting work. Steve also had some architectural experience from Pixar. On the macro level the alignment of the architecture with the organization as it was explained always made sense to me. On the micro level changing from offices to open floor is a huge change. How was that supposed to preserve and foster the enginee…

For all the loving of open offices, I've never seen an exec that works in an open area themselves. I heard about one, but never saw it with my own eyes. This is in 30+ years of working.

HP started with a "no offices" culture where even senior execs had cubes, but I have to think this is long gone.
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