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I'm a creep. I'm sorry

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Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#141

Post by theWatcher37 »

daenz wrote: post #24

Is it just me, or is committing public seppuku like this really necessary? If what he did was illegal, he should face prosecution. If he's compelled to apologize and admit his guilt, he should reach out to the people he actually wronged. This kind of public self-flagellation ("I'm such a creep. Please forgive me, world.") feels really over the top, phony, and symbolic.

Counterpoint: bowing to the collective social shaming buys the individual no "points", as is evidenced by this tread full of vultures questioning his motives.

Instead we've created a culture where the only logical move is to deny deny deny even in the face of overwhelming evidence because the only thing the modern left hates more than "creep" is a loser.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#142

Post by hendzen »

Caveat, McClure's behavior was bad. But seeing recent public floggings for misbehavior I now wonder if people are feeling a bit hypersensitive/cautious about any workplace conduct that could potentially be perceived as harassment.

Case in point. You work at a technology company. You are attracted to another coworker, who is NOT your subordinate. Is there some manner in which it is acceptable to express your interest? Or is this just not OK at all?

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#143

Post by tanderson92 »

criddell wrote: post #138
taurath wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have a job where you are working 12 hour days and weekends, your job is your life. I am actually curious when would an actual appropriate time to ask someone on a date might be - clearly the second someone brings up professional stuff, it should be out the door, but the veil of that can be breached with a simple "what have you been working on lately"

> when would an actual appropriate time to ask someone on a date might be If you are in a position of power over another person, I would say there isn't an appropriate time. The number of hours you work isn't really relevant. Put it this way: when is an appropriate time for a college professor (that works long hours!) to ask a student out on a date?

> when is an appropriate time for a college professor (that works long hours!) to ask a student out on a date?

A student generally or one of his students? There is a difference. And not too long ago a professor dating a student that he/she didn't have power over was not that uncommon.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#144

Post by pjzedalis »

mojowo11 wrote: post #136
pjzedalis wrote: post #123

He completely misses the forests from the trees. Had the woman been hired she would have been denied by him the satisfaction of knowing she earned the position through her hard work, intelligence, and capabilities. He also does not seem to recognize why he is a creep. Ultimately we find people creepy when they portray themselves and their motives one way and yet secretly or covertly act another. I recommend therapy s…

Not to be confrontational here (or argue with your primary point), but I'm pretty sure you didn't read the whole post. It says in the post that he's been going attending regular counseling already.

Good catch. I did read that but misplaced it when replying.

I am glad he is seeking help but I hope its for purposes of identifying his desires/behaviors and not only mandated by circumstance.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#146

Post by theWatcher37 »

mabbo wrote: post #101
daenz wrote: post #24

Is it just me, or is committing public seppuku like this really necessary? If what he did was illegal, he should face prosecution. If he's compelled to apologize and admit his guilt, he should reach out to the people he actually wronged. This kind of public self-flagellation ("I'm such a creep. Please forgive me, world.") feels really over the top, phony, and symbolic.

There's what's legally required, and there's what's morally required. Here's a guy who did some serious soul-searching and said "holy shit, maybe I'm wrong on a very bad way". It's about doing more than what he is bare minimum allowed to get away with. He's taking personal responsibility for his actions, openly and publicly. That takes a level of maturity and openness that I know is hard, and I fully respect. All tha…

But it won't be enough, it won't be seen as positive, and like half the comments in this thread show once you're outed as a PC heretic you're a non-entity.

Read through the smarmy "he doesn't mean it" comments all over this thread to see what I mean.

This culture is toxic in the tech community and needs to stop.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#147

Post by cbsmith »

hendzen wrote: post #142

Caveat, McClure's behavior was bad. But seeing recent public floggings for misbehavior I now wonder if people are feeling a bit hypersensitive/cautious about any workplace conduct that could potentially be perceived as harassment. Case in point. You work at a technology company. You are attracted to another coworker, who is NOT your subordinate. Is there some manner in which it is acceptable to express your interest?…

> You work at a technology company. You are attracted to another coworker, who is NOT your subordinate. Is there some manner in which it is acceptable to express your interest? Or is this just not OK at all?

Yes, there are plenty of manners to express it, just like at any company. That said, there are a lot of ways to express it that are just making someone's work life terrible.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#148

Post by theWatcher37 »

TylerE wrote: post #107
orthoganol wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's because he wanted to pepper in details like "It was over drinks and I thought it was social", aka actually defend his actions while renouncing them on the surface. The "upcoming discussions" with 500 associates reads like he's looking to get back onboard.

Classic non-apology apology. "I'm sorry you were offended".

Classic self righteous morality police.

"He didn't apologize good enough!"

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#149

Post by haltingthoughts »

cylinder wrote: post #8

I've got to wonder, why do coworkers go out for drinks if it's not a social setting? I don't understand the logic of mixing alcohol with colleagues if you're still under the "workplace" umbrella.

Alcohol is an "organizational lubricant". It's consumption allows people to express controversial opinions that may be needed to be expressed with less potential for blowback due to the setting.

This same plausible deniability also can enable people to be creeps.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#150

Post by TylerE »

theWatcher37 wrote: post #148
TylerE wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Classic non-apology apology. "I'm sorry you were offended".

Classic self righteous morality police. "He didn't apologize good enough!"

Self righteous? I didn't make any value judgement. Just called it a bullshit apology.
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